Paper Planes co-founder Emory Jones on why fashion is a universal language, how he turned "Vegas Jones" into a philosophy about betting on yourself, and why your brand needs to embody the life you're actually living.
Emory Jones went from a 13,000-person town in Maryland to Brooklyn at 16 with no family connections. Fashion was his communicator—the thing that helped him navigate rooms and build a career that spans Rocawear, Puma, and the creation of Paper Planes.
But Emory's real superpower isn't just design—it's understanding that people buy energy and lifestyle before they buy product. He shares how he helped bring Puma back into cultural conversation after years of being ignored and the moment a nickname from his past became a movement about self-belief.
This episode goes deep on building brands that match how you actually live, why comfort and function beat hype every time, and how walking—literally just walking with people—has become Emory's secret weapon for business, relationships, and creativity.
What You'll Learn:
Emory:
"Growing up, coming from where we come from, we wake up and bet on everything but ourselves. Everything—the gang, the block, anybody. We bet on everything but yourself."
"Fashion has always been my communicator. Before I know what you do or where you're at, I can figure you out by sight. That alone helped me balance rooms."
"If you're building something, you can't pick and choose who your customer is anymore. The guy across the street that you didn't think was your customer? That's your customer. Don't set yourself up for disappointment."
Links & Resources:
Keep the conversation going at smallbusinessunscripted.com
Timestamps:
01:00 – Early Career and Influences
02:05 – The Journey to New York and Rockawear
07:00 – Challenges and Lessons in Merchandising
10:35 – The Birth of Paper Planes
16:35 – Puma Collaboration and Legacy
21:40 – Bet on Yourself Philosophy
26:10 – Building a Lifestyle Brand
31:00 – Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
32:30 – Looking Forward: Plans for 2026
0:00:00.2 Emory Jones: Growing up, coming from where we come from, we wake up and bet on everything but ourselves. Everything we do. It's like when we talk about we can't get out, we go on a block and act like we own this block that we don't know and do all those things and bet on everything, like the gang, anybody. We bet on everything but yourself.
0:00:19.6 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:00:20.2 Emory Jones: So I said, oh, the name came from all those things. I'm going to flip it. Gambling just holds you back. Bet on yourself.
0:00:31.2 Everett Sands: Bet on yourself. That's Emory Jones, co-founder of Paper Planes and head of lifestyle at Roc Nation. We dive deep into his journey, full of insights on overcoming setbacks, building the right team, and betting on yourself. I'm Everett Sands, your host and the CEO of Lindustry. This is Small Business Unscripted.
0:00:56.7 Everett Sands: Welcome to Small Business Unscripted. Emory, good to see you.
0:00:59.9 Emory Jones: Pleasure, man.
0:01:01.3 Everett Sands: You are an influential figure in streetwear, music, hip-hop, culture. The list is probably too long for me to go through all of that. But let me start with a question I ask every person that comes on the show. Just kind of top of mind as you're thinking about things right now. Are you thinking about career? You think about, you know, compensation? You think about quality of life? Like what's what's kind of the most important thing to you right now in your journey?
0:01:26.2 Emory Jones: Peace of mind.
0:01:27.3 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:01:27.9 Emory Jones: Peace of mind for me because I think if I walk into these endeavors and be me in them, I still have to be at peace with self. And keeping me at peace with self make work not work.
0:01:41.7 Everett Sands: That's awesome.
0:01:42.5 Emory Jones: You know what I'm saying? Like, I love to I love to approach everything I do is work not work. Because when it's work, it's like a different thing, right? For me, I like to have fun. I like to when I'm doing something and I'm indulged with it, it's got to be fun for me.
0:01:57.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:01:58.1 Emory Jones: Because if it's fun for me, that means, you know, I get to give over and beyond what's needed.
0:02:05.2 Everett Sands: That makes perfect sense. So we're going to get into Paper Planes a little bit later, but I want to just start kind of early career, early Emory. Like, what brought you into like music, fashion, hip-hop? Like, what drew you?
0:02:18.7 Emory Jones: Growing up in a little town, there's 13,000 people today. It's like you're in a box, right? But you're looking at the world through a lens and you see the world happening. And for me, I learned early because fashion was always my thing. Fashion was my communicator. I felt like it's it's three universal languages in the world, regardless who you are, what you do, where you're from, young, old, white, black, muslim, Christian. Did it bring us together and have a conversation? Music, sports and fashion. But fashion has always been my communicator because it's that thing as humans before I know what you do, where you at. You know,
0:03:03.5 Everett Sands: You can figure.
0:03:04.6 Emory Jones: I can sight. We human sight.
0:03:06.4 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:03:07.0 Emory Jones: So that alone helped me balance rooms. So it's always been my communicator through life. So I looked at it as like, okay, fashion was my community. I loved all that. But I had to get to where fashion is fashion. So it was like, you know what? I know I got a knack for it, but I had to go to New York City. I had to be in the I had to be in the Apple. I had to be in the Mecca of it, right? So for me, you know, 16 years old, no family, went to Brooklyn, New York and never left. Never turned back. It was like New York was either going to make me or break me.
0:03:45.7 Everett Sands: I totally get it.
0:03:46.6 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? I let that muse of fashion navigate me through life. Because it's not about the clothes it's about the style. But with style, you as a human got to step in the clothes. So it still takes you regardless of all the dope clothes and all the dope shoes you got. You have to step into it.
0:04:10.0 Everett Sands: You got to have that personality, that charisma. You got to you got to make the clothes come to life.
0:04:13.7 Emory Jones: Yes. Yes.
0:04:15.0 Everett Sands: So where'd you get your start?
0:04:16.4 Emory Jones: It was a thing was though my mom was always that one that worked hard. And when she did do things for me, she always made sure I was look good. Right. One of the prime examples who who would push me into fashion the way it did was think about it. Growing up where we growing up, one of the main holidays was Easter.
0:04:37.9 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:04:38.6 Emory Jones: You know me, Easter Sunday, suited and booted, go as a family, right? And for my mom, it was the opposite. That was the time that I knew regardless if Christmas came or birthday came, I ain't get nothing, you know, whatever. I knew Easter I was going to be fresh. And the thing she did for me every Easter, new sweatsuit, new pair of sneakers.
0:05:04.6 Everett Sands: Interesting.
0:05:05.3 Emory Jones: That was my... So to have that thing there, you know what I mean? It was like it helped me find me at that moment. It's like till this day they tell you, it's like, give me a sweatsuit. Like, if you ain't going to tell me we got to put a tux on or a suit on, I'm coming in a sweatsuit. So it was always a sweatsuit and pair of sneakers.
0:05:25.4 Everett Sands: I told you my favorite my favorite thing at Paper Planes is a sweatsuit, but we're not going to go there yet. We're not going to go there, yet. So what was the first corporate gig? Was that Puma?
0:05:34.3 Emory Jones: It was Rocawear.
0:05:36.4 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:05:37.0 Emory Jones: You know, I went on a little vacation and came back and and everybody was like, you know, what you want to get into? And I was like, you know what? Fashion has always been my thing. This is around 2010. Rocawear was, like, on the decline. And I was like, let me take this challenge. Because it wasn't about Rocawear on the decline. It was just brand fatigue. And then in our world, we move on for brands. That's that's what it is. So it was like, let me take that challenge. Jay in particular was like, I'm gonna put you in merchandise.
0:06:09.7 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:06:10.3 Emory Jones: So me at first, I'm like, merchandise. I'm thinking merchandise store. Blah, blah, blah.
0:06:14.9 Everett Sands: That's what just came to my head.
0:06:15.9 Emory Jones: But in a fashion company, the merchandiser is the most important person in the room because that's the person who has to be the muse between design, corporate, production, marketing, to keep everything aligned. So you really have to know the ins and outs of everything that makes this thing tick.
0:06:36.3 Everett Sands: It's the whole business.
0:06:37.6 Emory Jones: And it was the perfect school for me because now one day I'm going to roll with sales team. Next day, I'm over here with design. I'm over here with production. I'm over here with the business guys. So I'm learning every aspect of what it takes to make a brand and run a brand.
0:06:54.2 Everett Sands: So speaking of that, I mean, some of our audience probably, you know, they're probably just starting out. Do you tell them or do you... When you educate them or school them, do you say, like, attach yourself to a major brand? Do you generally tell them to do their own thing?
0:07:07.6 Emory Jones: I think even when you attach yourself to a major brand, you have to walk into that brand being the best you.
0:07:20.0 Everett Sands: I got you.
0:07:20.5 Emory Jones: And we sometimes see the brand and get lost in being you in the brand. But you you have to still walk in the room and be the best you, regardless of how big or small that room is or what that brand says on the wall. And I think sometimes we lose those things because it becomes a job. And the thing is, we put that focus on the job, and it's like, no, you're here for a reason. And you're hired for a reason because you need to be your best skills. Bring your best skills to that moment. I think for me, I love for people to look at it that way than looking at the brand and looking at who they work for or who they think they should be working for, right? Because I think it helps you understand when that dream job do come why you're here. Yes, it's your dream job. Yes, it's your dream brand. But still, you have to be on top of your game as who you are.
0:08:12.7 Emory Jones: Emory Jones walking, I had to be the best Emory Jones walking into that situation. I think people lose that nowadays.
0:08:18.6 Everett Sands: So what was the hardest thing you walk in, you're head of merchandising, what was the thing where you're like, this one I might not know. Obviously you figured it out, but what was that one thing you were like, oh, this is going to be a real challenge, a real good challenge for me.
0:08:31.4 Emory Jones: For me, I think the most challenges was when you got people in the room who are driving the car but don't really have a clue. Because I'm walking in a room and, you know, everybody's trying to tell me...
0:08:44.7 Everett Sands: What to do.
0:08:46.2 Emory Jones: How to do. But it's like, how you gonna tell me how to be me? You're talking about me. Your brand and your marketing is built off of... Based off of me, but you're trying to tell me how to be me. And there's a lot of times most people don't know how to balance those things. Like me, I know you're talking about me, and I know you're basing off of me. And I don't walk in with my chest out like me. I'm still walking in understanding, knowing what you got to get done. What you're trying to deliver and for people to understand. I know that. So me, I got to walk in with a balanced thinking knowing you don't know, but I know you're the boss. So how do I help you understand even as you're the leader?
0:09:28.9 Everett Sands: Yeah, I got you.
0:09:30.1 Emory Jones: So that was one of the hardest parts because you know you're telling someone something, right, but sometimes they don't want to hear it from certain people.
0:09:38.0 Everett Sands: So what do you do? Do you clean house? Do you start from, something small and get large? Like, how do you do?
0:09:43.6 Emory Jones: You know what? The part that made me navigate it was in that moment, Jay used to always come in and still approve. They show him what's what, and he'd give his opinion on it. And one day we was in there and we was trying to make, you know how it is, you're trying to make what Jay will wear. And I'm like, y'all missed that boat.
0:10:05.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:10:06.3 Emory Jones: Jay's crew, y'all missed that boat. And then at the end of the meeting, I would say, whatever Jay said he liked, we're not making it. And then everybody in the room was like, wait a minute. How can you say that? And he's laughing. Because this is my job. You know what I mean? The consumer is not, you missed that boat. Like, I'm just trying to get you to understand that you missed that boat. It's like a car, right? It's like, you get a car. First thing you do when you get a new car, there's a sticker in the car. It says, so many miles, tune up, certain date, go get it checked, right? And what happens when you don't go do that? One day you're gonna pull over, the light on, the engine light on. And you like...
0:11:02.9 Everett Sands: It's coming out.
0:11:03.4 Emory Jones: You like, shucks, right? But tuning up, they forget to tune up. So now as Jay, steady taking these steps, he's 10 steps ahead. And because we made, we was... But I understood why. You're making so much money that you're not thinking about that part.
0:11:07.6 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:11:08.1 Emory Jones: But now when you got to think about it, he's 10 steps ahead, and we ain't take two steps.
0:11:12.1 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:11:13.0 Emory Jones: So now to wake up and be like, okay, let's make this for him. You missed that boat. So you got to know how to balance that in the room. Don't get me wrong. This I get it. I understand. But it's like, you still have to know that balance at that time, like, thinking about it. And I think those moments gave me leverage in the room because it wasn't saying, like, I tell this day, I'm going to run it by Jay before I do anything. Because to have that validation or have that type of person with so much information that I can run something by, I'm going to do that on everything I do. So I wasn't saying it like, I'm just saying it more like, understand where we at.
0:11:57.8 Everett Sands: But what's interesting to me about you is you have the creative, the ethos, and the corporate. You know what I mean? Like, and I feel like some people are, they got one of them in spades, but they don't generally have all three. And I think that's what's unique about you. Okay, so Rocawear, and what's after that?
0:12:16.5 Emory Jones: As we figured out that Rocawear thing, you know, that's when the Paper Plane came about.
0:12:21.7 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:12:22.1 Emory Jones: Because my whole thing was, guys, we got to figure out what's next. You know what I'm saying? Like, they thinking I'm like, walk away from where? I'm like, how am I going to say walk away, still making $50 million a year for a men's business? I'm not saying that. I'm just like, what's next?
0:12:37.6 Everett Sands: What's next? What's adjacent? What else do we do?
0:12:39.3 Emory Jones: What's next? What's the next thing? And during that process, we started figuring out, what's what. And then, like I said, this Paper Plane popped up. And I think even at that moment with that, we almost went the wrong way. Because it was like...
0:12:57.8 Everett Sands: Tell me more.
0:12:59.3 Emory Jones: When Rocawear was the reason to put us in this position to do other things, we want to see that continue to win. So the first thing we thinking is, how can we bring in something to substitute what that was? And I was like, you can't approach it that way. Because as much as Rocawear did that for us, with that fatigue, there's a lot of baggage to go with that. No need to carry that on to the next thing, right? No need to have that stigma on that when you're trying to create the next thing. So, at that moment, everybody was talking about Roc Nation because as a brand, Roc Nation, the brand, not clothing, anything, as the conglomerate of what it was, was booming, taking off, right? So the first thing you think is, okay, Rocawear, Roc Nation. It's like, that's not, I get it. I understand. But I think the beauty of having a lead like Jay, understanding what he's done and what brands mean, he the one took that step back and was like, no, let's separate this. Let's separate and give this new thing a chance to build, to breathe that luxury of not forcing and not running. So when that was happening, it really gave myself as a creative, a blank canvas to help build a foundation for it to turn into what it is. Because, remember, it didn't start off as the face of our company.
0:14:32.0 Everett Sands: Yeah, no. No, it didn't. Definitely not.
0:14:34.3 Emory Jones: Had to earn that.
0:14:34.8 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:14:36.0 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? So during that process of earning that, you double back and you like, oh, shucks, we got something else to go with this machine that's already there. And I tell people all the time, you can throw any name in the world, but our machine is built off of one thing first. That's the big homie, you know what I'm saying? The big homie is the lead. And it's always great to have a great leader.
0:14:55.4 Everett Sands: Sure. Absolutely.
0:14:56.7 Emory Jones: It's like, great leader, you can go take over the world for me. So it's like, understanding that and understanding his mindset, it gave us a chance where as though 10 years down the line, Planes is a real thing.
0:15:10.7 Everett Sands: Paper Planes is so universal, but, like, so special. Like how...
0:15:15.4 Emory Jones: Think about it. Growing up, regardless of where you're from.
0:15:22.4 Everett Sands: Regardless of where you're from.
0:15:24.8 Emory Jones: We all dream. And before you got a chance to leave where you was from, what we used to do, make paper planes and mentally fly away.
0:15:33.2 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:15:33.5 Emory Jones: And mentally fly away. That was our thing. It's like, that was our escape. Make a paper plane and like, oh, I'm going to... Whatever it is, you dream it, right? And I think the paper plane itself is just universal language for anybody. And I think we live in a world where as though, there's a lot going on. I tell my family all the time, it's like, as much as you want to be black and white, the world is gray. And you have to navigate through that gray space. And I think that paper plane helps you navigate through that gray space, right? It gives you a chance to dream. It's like for me, coming from that town of 13, I never thought I was going to get on a plane, right? We didn't have a car, you know what I'm saying? But, to make that plane and mentally fly away was escape for me.
0:16:25.0 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:16:25.8 Emory Jones: And guess what? I'm from the projects. I think it's the same thing for someone that grew up in Beverly Hills. Even though they got the big house with the bigger fence, you're still dealing with life and sometimes you want to get away, right? And I think that's what that plane, that's the plane itself that I think with us, when we put the black flag on it, I think we might live in a world today where as though we think that's against who we are. Oh, I love my country. I love what I... I love it is we far from perfect, but I think the black flag represents culture. That was our point of that. The black flag on it represents culture. It's like, you know, we take a pair of Timberland boots, this work boots, pull them out the box and never tie them up. That's just what culture is. Culture embodies that. You feel what I mean? So I think when we merge those things together, you got the logo, right? But then I think the mission is now how do we add the substance to it? You know what I mean?
0:17:25.9 Emory Jones: We came across the mantra, the greatness of the process. It's like, oh, like science. You take that now and you add that, right? Now you take from that as like anything else. Look, you come to me, you got to continue to build. Even though you're in this beautiful office, you still, every day is a build.
0:17:40.4 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:17:41.0 Emory Jones: Every day is a like, figure out how to add to this space and add to what you've built, right? I think it's the same thing with a brand. It's an everyday thing. You just don't wake up and got it all figured out today.
0:17:54.4 Everett Sands: No way.
0:17:54.8 Emory Jones: Yet the moon war you might got, you might start with, you still got to go through that process every single day of how to mold this into being what it is. And I think 10 years down the line, I'm still molding. I'm still like, I'm still in a phase where though, man, I'm blessed to be here 10 years later with planes. But I feel like this next chapter has so much more than what this tension, this 10 years been. But I got to still study. I got to still bring new things to the table. I still got to keep an open mind of what the world is. I still got to balance. So it's still an everyday process.
0:18:30.1 Everett Sands: Real talk, man. So I feel the exact same way in the industry. I mean, whether the hustle is clothing or finance, it is literally the exact same thing. Like, literally I'm talking to my team, like, what can we innovate on? What could we do differently? For us, it's a little bit more the financial product on the process. But still, people find access to capital elusive. And I'm like, it's just money. Like, it's money from this hand to this hand. Why is it so tough? I know it's been engineered that way, but how do we re-engineer it and make it a little bit different? So I totally get where you're coming from. So you start a new brand, but you also have another brand. So what happens? Do you say, this over here, this over here? I mean, just so real talk with you. I wore more Paper Planes than I wore Rocawear. So I know the feel of the material. I know everything, so I'm biased. But how do you make that decision?
0:19:25.2 Emory Jones: I think it's more or less when you talk about clothes in life, no one's reinventing the wheel.
0:19:30.8 Everett Sands: Fair.
0:19:31.5 Emory Jones: You change the name on it. You don't need the color of a tree. No one's reinventing the wheel. I think it goes back to aesthetic, right? I think, when you talk about planes and the mission, what it was from the doors about, being out and working, you got to be out in the mix. So it's all about comfort first. For me, it's comfort.
0:19:56.7 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:19:57.0 Emory Jones: I'm going to start there. Anything I buy, I got to feel comfortable in it, right? Comfortable. Travel a lot. So how can I make this functional, traveling.
0:20:08.6 Everett Sands: Totally with you.
0:20:09.3 Emory Jones: Right? But then still, when I land, I want to be able to get off the plane and go straight to a meeting.
0:20:12.3 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:20:13.0 Emory Jones: Right? So it was all built around that. It was like, let's start where we at in life right now. Okay, I know where we was at then, right?
0:20:25.4 Everett Sands: Right.
0:20:26.0 Emory Jones: This is where we at in life now, right?
0:20:27.8 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:20:28.6 Emory Jones: On the go.
0:20:29.4 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:20:30.0 Emory Jones: So it was like, let's base around that and build off of that. Like, fit in your closet would make sense for you, right? Every day I'm on my feet, I'm on the move. I'm getting to it. So I need comfortable, functional clothes.
0:20:43.8 Everett Sands: Absolutely. At all times.
0:20:44.6 Emory Jones: Even when I put a suit on, I'm not just buying a suit because of the name. It still has to feel good. I got to be able to move in it. It's like that. So for me, when you look at it, taking on that challenge to understand, let me look in the mirror first.
0:21:01.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:21:03.0 Emory Jones: I can't build. Let me start with myself. If we're going to build a brand, I got to be able to wear the brand, right? So you start there. Then you work backwards to what the world is. And I think for me, to your point earlier, after Rocawear, before we got into Planes, because Planes is 10 years, the Puma situation happened in the mix of that.
0:21:24.1 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:21:24.5 Emory Jones: Because for me, I've been consulting for Puma 13 years now. But footwear has always been a part of my life.
0:21:31.6 Everett Sands: So explain that to the audience. Like, if they're in a Puma store at a mall right now or headed to a mall, like, where's your imprint?
0:21:40.8 Emory Jones: My imprint is, humbly saying this, is that 13 years ago, no one was talking about Puma. Puma wasn't in the conversation, right? So to take on that challenge and be a part of a team to help us be back in the conversation, whereas though you can walk in the store and see Puma, that's part of the footprint.
0:22:03.5 Everett Sands: I gotcha.
0:22:04.7 Emory Jones: That's the thing that we skip over because we think it's just the shoes. It's like, no, yeah, I get it. I totally get it. But for me, it was easy because I knew what it was like when I got my first pair of Pumas. My first pair of suede Pumas was everything. I couldn't believe it. I was like, suede on a sneaker? Like, what? It was too good. It was just too, it's too good. So the thought of Puma for me wasn't a challenge, right? Because I understood that already, right? But to go back and get the world to understand and conversate about it, it's a lot, especially when you're in a big company, a German company with partners all over the world. So to navigate those different voices and those different lenses, my job is not to fight that.
0:22:56.2 Everett Sands: Yeah. So similar to the way you handled the Rocawear.
0:22:58.5 Emory Jones: Yes. My job ain't to fight that. My job is heartbeat feeling.
0:23:03.7 Everett Sands: Makes sense.
0:23:04.5 Emory Jones: Heartbeat feeling. Before I even get to product.
0:23:06.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:23:07.4 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? Because let me go make a conversation. Let me get a heartbeat and a feeling going, whereas though, now it makes it easier for me to fall back into the product and make it a product. Because me, like I said, conversation, communication is everything. You know what I mean? Information.
0:23:26.0 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:23:26.5 Emory Jones: But sometimes the way information is delivered, because we all given the same information, but a lot of times, it's how someone deliver it for people to take it in.
0:23:36.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:23:37.3 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? For me, I like to talk from a basic life standpoint. Like, I'm in the corporate room with.
0:23:41.9 Everett Sands: It's almost too simple, probably for a country.
0:23:43.6 Emory Jones: You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like I'm sitting there banging. It's like, man, I was on a panel the other day, and the guy that was me, a lady from the Ran the Barbie franchise for 16 years, and a T-Mobile guy. And the T-Mobile guy was a moderator. And he started off like, man, I'm the least cool on the stage, right? And then I let him get that off, but by the time the end of the day, I went back to that conversation and I said, you're really not, right? I said, think about it. You're in control of the phone.
0:24:16.0 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:24:17.6 Emory Jones: You're the most important person in the room. And when I said that to him, he was like, wow.
0:24:23.7 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:24:24.2 Emory Jones: I'm gonna take that with me.
0:24:25.6 Everett Sands: Yes.
0:24:26.3 Emory Jones: I'm like, you're really the most important. Without the phone.
0:24:30.0 Everett Sands: I mean, it's the transaction machine.
0:24:33.8 Emory Jones: You can't do anything. I can't understand what I might like, what might be cool.
0:24:38.0 Everett Sands: Exactly.
0:24:38.7 Emory Jones: Without the phone.
0:24:39.3 Everett Sands: Can't shop, can't call.
0:24:40.6 Emory Jones: So I took it back to him and he was like, he got up all this day, he was like, man, I needed that. I'm taking that back to the office. Like, exactly. Because in the meeting you think, okay, let's go get these celebrities and these artists and these athletes, and this is what's gonna make me cool. But then don't understand how cool you already are.
0:24:59.7 Everett Sands: That's right. That's right. That was great, Emory. That's great. We're going to take a break and listen to our boss, Lendistry. She's awesome.
0:25:05.6 Jariel Al Vasquez: Hi, my name is Jariel Al Vasquez. I'm with Avid Promotions. We're based out of Brea, California. And basically, we're your one-stop shop for all your promotional products, apparel, and your sourcing needs. So back in 2016, when we had just acquired Avid, I personally acquired Avid, we were doing great financially. 17, my largest account basically disappears, goes 40% of my profit. And Lendistry was my perfect match because they were the ones that actually gave me their hands. They're the ones that opened up that door. Lendistry basically gave us the finance, allowed us to start pre-purchasing product, start pre-purchasing apparel, which allowed us to actually increase our net margin. That lifeline allowed me to continue to grow my business, but it also allowed me to continue to grow myself. It allowed me to be a good father, to be there for my daughter because I had help for my business, but it also allowed me to continue my education. To them, it's not about making money and growing the business specifically financially. I think it's to make a true impact. And that's why you see Lendistry growing today. I'm an individual, I'm a business. I'm someone to them.
0:26:09.1 Jariel Al Vasquez: It's not just a number. And that's why I would highly recommend it.
0:26:17.3 Everett Sands: You talked about that guy on stage and one of the things I've heard you say and know you kind of live by is this kind of bet on yourself philosophy. So, where'd that come from? Tell me how you... I see how you talk to people about it naturally, but is it, does it just flow or?
0:26:33.6 Emory Jones: No, it's a thing, whereas though, you get these nicknames from points of life of what, those chapters of life that you've been through, good, bad and ugly. And I was fortunate that my brothers and them gave me this name, Vegas Jones, back in the day. Like, this was 1994, right? '95.
0:26:56.0 Everett Sands: All I can think about is rolling dice.
0:26:56.9 Emory Jones: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it was Mike Tyson and just came home from jail in his first fight. Peter McNeeley, Vegas, MGM. So, when Vegas was Vegas, right?
0:27:08.2 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:27:08.6 Emory Jones: And we all go down there. We ain't got a record deal, we ain't got nothing. He's like, we go down and we run around there like we own the city, right? And it's funny because this is during the time, whereas though, people already knew who Jay was in the business. So it wasn't a thing just because we didn't have a deal. But when you, talent is talent. But we was down there on our own dime, living life.
0:27:32.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:27:33.1 Emory Jones: Like showing up like bosses and everything else, but it just, it was my first time in Vegas. And back then I used to get on craps table was my thing. And I got there and I hit him for 20,000.
0:27:48.8 Everett Sands: All right.
0:27:49.3 Emory Jones: Soon as I got there, so I was like, me myself, I'm like, oh, this is a free trip. Like, I ain't got to spend my own money. Right. Like, I got 20. So from that, it just turned into a, I just turned into a different person.
0:28:00.8 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:28:01.5 Emory Jones: And elevated. And then, by the end of the night and by the time we went back, all I was like, your new name Vegas Jones, right? So years later, after everything I went through and, come to life. And around this time when I, 15, 14 years ago, a guy who worked with us for BBC and he kept saying, OG, you have to get on social media.
0:28:27.1 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:28:27.5 Emory Jones: And I'm like, man, I'm not getting on social media. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. He's like, no, I'm telling you. You need to, they need to hear you. He's telling me that then.
0:28:36.0 Everett Sands: Oh, wow.
0:28:36.4 Emory Jones: He's like, they need to hear you.
0:28:39.0 Everett Sands: I agree with him.
0:28:39.7 Emory Jones: And I was like, you know what? But I didn't want to get on social media talking old world stories. What was the streets? And I didn't want to talk. I didn't want to be stuck in the past. So when I was on a little vacation, I used to start, I started these Word of the Days. So I used to send these Word of the Day. I had a list of 30 people that I could email, and I would send these Word of the Days out every day.
0:29:04.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:29:04.9 Emory Jones: Boom. And it's like. But then it was times I couldn't send them.
0:29:07.0 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:29:07.3 Emory Jones: And people used to be like, where is it? Where is it? It became a thing. So finally, one day, a friend of mine, he's like, I got a gift for you. He come and gave me a folder. Every Word of the Day I sent with the date. So I'm like, okay. So while he's telling me, yo, you gotta get on social media. So I said, oh, it clicked in my head.
0:29:27.7 Everett Sands: Right.
0:29:29.1 Emory Jones: I was like, okay. They waiting to hear me say something. I'm gonna start with these Word of the Days. I'm gonna start with this. I'm gonna give out some good words because the Word of the Day ain't me talking to you. I'm talking to myself at the same time.
0:29:39.0 Everett Sands: I get it.
0:29:39.4 Emory Jones: Like, you might read a word like I'm talking to you, but it's like, no, it's really with me. It's really for me, too. So I started these Word of the Days. And that was the thing. I was like, I got on social media, and I was like, okay, everybody know me for Vegas Jones because of the music. Jay-Z didn't put me in the music, and everybody know me for all these things. And I'm like, Vegas came from a chapter in life that ain't where I'm at in life now.
0:30:09.2 Everett Sands: That's right. Yeah.
0:30:10.2 Emory Jones: So I said, you know what? Growing up, coming from where we come from, we wake up and bet on everything but ourselves.
0:30:17.0 Everett Sands: Interesting.
0:30:18.1 Emory Jones: Everything we do, it's like when we talk about we can't get out. We go on a block and act like we own this block that we don't know and do all the things and bet on everything, like the gang, anybody. We bet on everything, but yourself.
0:30:32.0 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:30:32.6 Emory Jones: So I said, oh, the name came from all those things.
0:30:37.1 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:30:37.7 Emory Jones: I'm gonna flip it.
0:30:38.8 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:30:39.3 Emory Jones: Gambling. Hold your bank. Bet on yourself.
0:30:42.7 Everett Sands: Bet on yourself.
0:30:43.8 Emory Jones: And it came from that tune of that.
0:30:44.0 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:30:44.4 Emory Jones: And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna use this chapter in my life. Did not thrill on what happened before. Now, don't get me wrong, it's been a lot of great things. I don't regret nothing.
0:30:55.1 Everett Sands: Sure.
0:30:55.6 Emory Jones: But how do I take what was there and then add a chapter that means something moving forward?
0:31:01.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:31:02.3 Emory Jones: And that's what I flipped. I flipped to Vegas Jones from gambling a lot to betting on yourself.
0:31:07.0 Everett Sands: That's hot, man.
0:31:08.0 Emory Jones: Yeah.
0:31:08.5 Everett Sands: So, I mean, trying to keep positive motivation. Trying to, whether it be words of the day, whether it be how you talk to yourself, I know part of the crew that obviously you have. But how do you keep the right people around you or how have you navigated that dude?
0:31:22.1 Emory Jones: I think, you meet a lot of people in life.
0:31:25.3 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:31:25.7 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? You gonna always meet a lot of people in life. I think you gotta know how to put them in categories. You know what I mean? Not everybody's gonna show up like my, gonna be the same as my crew.
0:31:37.8 Everett Sands: Yeah, for sure.
0:31:38.7 Emory Jones: So that means I can't hold that against them.
0:31:40.9 Everett Sands: Right.
0:31:41.3 Emory Jones: If they're not the same crew. But I think in life, kids in school, right?
0:31:45.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:31:46.7 Emory Jones: You going to school, you're gonna deal with brains that might not be on the same page with you, but you still have to deal with them, right?
0:31:53.0 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:31:53.8 Emory Jones: Put that in that category. What it is.
0:31:56.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:31:57.4 Emory Jones: Right. I'm not going to waste my energy and deal with not good people.
0:32:01.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:32:02.8 Emory Jones: It's always going to be socializing, there's always going to be respect. But I don't have to allow myself to put extra energy into it. And that's where I'm at in life. I don't, I'm not wasting my time and energy just to have new friends.
0:32:16.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:32:17.5 Emory Jones: Or just to be friends.
0:32:18.7 Everett Sands: I totally get it.
0:32:19.5 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? Because if I walk in a room, we don't have to be friends. I'm still going to treat you with the same respect as a friend.
0:32:26.7 Everett Sands: Yeah, makes perfect sense.
0:32:28.0 Emory Jones: Because that's the human side of me. Like, I'm giving what I want to receive. So I'm always going to keep the room balanced that way because I'm honestly giving what I want to receive. Even if it's the first time I met you, I'm giving what I want to receive.
0:32:40.5 Everett Sands: That makes sense.
0:32:41.1 Emory Jones: I'm giving you good energy because I want to receive good energy. I'm giving you respect because I want to receive respect. And if I keep that balanced that way...
0:32:48.7 Everett Sands: It makes all the sense.
0:32:50.8 Emory Jones: Yeah.
0:32:51.8 Everett Sands: So to me, I mean, we got a lot of small businesses, a lot of entrepreneurs in the audience listening to us. What's some of the advice you have for them? I mean, you've obviously been through a couple different walks. You've been corporate, you created your own corporate.
0:33:04.8 Emory Jones: I think one of the main things for me is that, you know how you sit home and you dream about building something and you, like, you see on the board and you think you see the customer you're building it for and who you want to buy your product and everything else. I think those days are over with.
0:33:21.1 Everett Sands: Interesting.
0:33:21.7 Emory Jones: I think when you build something, you got to build it from a point of, this is great product. This is a great thing that I'm putting to the world, but you can't pick and choose who your customers is no more.
0:33:31.4 Everett Sands: That's interesting.
0:33:32.6 Emory Jones: That model to me is all over the place of thinking that I can cater to this thing. Because what happens is you set yourself up and you want this person to be your customer. But then that person don't want to be your customer, you feel defeated. And it's like, no, if you build something, the guy across the street that you might then think was your customer, your customer, you're not going to cater to them now.
0:34:00.1 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:34:00.5 Emory Jones: When it's right there in front of you. It's a point of don't set yourself up for disappointment because you think you know who your customer is.
0:34:08.4 Everett Sands: That's interesting. That's interesting. I mean, you've had customers obviously internationally still to this day. But it's just interesting you say that because I hear so many people either say, I'm going to do customer service or I'm going to, they're so in search of that. But the brilliance of what you're saying is when you add in social media, whatever, e-commerce, all these different things that people have, it's basically impossible to know who your customer is.
0:34:33.3 Emory Jones: You do all those things, you study, you do the surveys, you do all that. You always keep the data, you always want to know. But the people I try to tell people what we talked about the other day was when people go and paid marketing and paid the thing. And I'm like, the difference is companies think that's your driver. No, that's your amplifier.
0:34:54.5 Everett Sands: I got you.
0:34:55.3 Emory Jones: Not the other way around. So it's like you go get the data to have an understanding, not to be like, this is what I'm built off of. If you're going to use it, you use it. But I think what you have to realize, your brand still has to be strong on a foundation that stands for something, whereas though, like I said, that person you think is your consumer just might not be it. And that's okay. Because if you look at a consumer, a lot of consumers are going to follow, right?
0:35:22.4 Everett Sands: Yeah, for sure.
0:35:24.1 Emory Jones: And I get it. And that's understood.
0:35:24.7 Everett Sands: And you want that.
0:35:25.4 Emory Jones: You want that. But not all businesses can survive off of that.
0:35:31.1 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:35:31.8 Emory Jones: Not all businesses are equipped to survive that way. You know what I mean? So you don't want to, like I said, be disappointed. I'm just saying that in the sense of don't be disappointed when someone walked through your door that you thought was not your customer and is your customer. Because at the end of the day, what you still, still going to have to be hospitality, still going to have to service them in the way. I just don't want you to be disappointed.
0:35:56.9 Everett Sands: So let's say one of our audience members is starting a lifestyle brand. What's some of the other additional advice you might give to them today?
0:36:05.3 Emory Jones: I think when you think about lifestyle, right?
0:36:07.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:36:08.7 Emory Jones: Lifestyle is everyday life. Like, like common everyday life. Like, this is everyday. We just put this lifestyle thing on it, but it's like everyday life. I think for me, when you're talking about lifestyle, you have to match energy wise, feel wise, what you're trying to sell the world in lifestyle, right? I think nowadays we so caught up in making the brand and making what it is and forgetting that you're the most important person in the room for that brand to be that brand. Because even if you ain't the face of it, you're still in the back navigating what this thing look like and what this thing feel like. So I'm going to keep going back to what I always say, it starts with self.
0:36:57.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:36:58.3 Emory Jones: Like I want people to understand, like when you go in these business, you do, the way you believe in building this business, the way you believe in saying, I can do this, it's always going to start and end with you.
0:37:08.9 Everett Sands: Yeah. Makes sense.
0:37:10.5 Emory Jones: It's always going to start and end with you. You bring in employees, they're going to feed off of you, not just the brand.
0:37:14.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:37:15.5 Emory Jones: That's the monetary side of that part, the trans... But the thing that's going to make them understand your brand more, work for your brand the way you want them to work for your brand, live the brand the way you want them to live for your brand is how you live for it.
0:37:31.7 Everett Sands: Of course, they're going to see you.
0:37:32.7 Emory Jones: They'll see you.
0:37:34.2 Everett Sands: They're going to react to you.
0:37:35.8 Emory Jones: They'll see you. I totally agree with that. They'll see you.
0:37:37.7 Everett Sands: So you traveled the world. If you could go back and talk to young Emory coming out of Maryland, anything you would tell him to do in terms of either his dreams, ambitions or anything.
0:37:51.2 Emory Jones: One of the main things I would tell, I wouldn't change nothing.
0:37:53.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:37:54.1 Emory Jones: Was I good, bad or ugly. But I do think I would tell him, take life more serious early.
0:38:05.5 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:38:06.3 Emory Jones: Because if you take life more serious early, you can get by some of them mishaps that I've been through.
0:38:12.9 Everett Sands: Sure.
0:38:13.7 Emory Jones: Like, it ain't a thing about, it's easy to say my environment.
0:38:17.3 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:38:18.1 Emory Jones: Yeah, my environment's going to be my environment.
0:38:20.1 Everett Sands: Right.
0:38:20.5 Emory Jones: But I still have to be accountable for me, right? And I think for me, I would really go back and say, more accountability for self. Because a lot of times I took life for granted.
0:38:34.6 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:38:35.0 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? Like, for me, I played sports, had scholarships and all that, but I never took it serious.
0:38:40.1 Everett Sands: Gotcha.
0:38:40.8 Emory Jones: The talent got me by. You know what I mean? So imagine if I took one step and it gave me a chance to not be over here and think about life different.
0:38:50.2 Everett Sands: Yeah. I got you.
0:38:51.1 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? So I think you got to take life more serious. I think I would have took life way more serious. And I wish I would go back and reflect at that young Emory, like, take life more serious. I took it serious for all the wrong things.
0:39:06.3 Everett Sands: Yeah. I got you. Makes sense. Makes sense. All right, coming back forward. So what's new? Anything you want to tell us on Paper Planes? What should we be looking out for?
0:39:16.4 Emory Jones: I think it's a big year for me. I think, for me, going into this 2026 for me is big because I've been the ultimate team player my whole life. Like, I'm one of those guys that when it come to team, team is everything. Life is team sport.
0:39:35.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:39:36.0 Emory Jones: You know what I'm saying? Team is everything. I've never seen one person make it to where they are by themself. So I've been such an ultimate team player that going in '26, I'm tagging myself as being the team player for myself.
0:39:49.8 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:39:50.6 Emory Jones: Like, I'm finally taking a, taking on this role of what's best for Emory.
0:39:55.3 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:39:55.8 Emory Jones: Right? And I think me taking on this role is going to be better for everybody around me. Because the better I am, the better I'm going to be for everybody else, because that's who I am. But it's finally in this year, I'm really taking on this challenge of me. Like, what I'm going to do to make sure my legacy is secured the way it should be, in a way where it's though I live for us, I live for everybody. Like, I walk in, we in school, I walk into school, I don't think about just my daughter.
0:40:27.2 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:40:28.0 Emory Jones: Think about every kid floating through there. So for me, going into this year is just, it's a year of Emory driving his car, get out to help so many people understand how to drive their cars. This is the year for me to drive my car.
0:40:42.3 Everett Sands: That's great.
0:40:43.2 Emory Jones: One of the main things that we're on this year is this walk-ins. Like, I done took this walking thing, and I think this walking thing has been community. It's like bringing people together who don't know each other, but you bring the right group of people together with the right energy. And I feel like going back to not working out, just being active.
0:41:02.9 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:41:03.3 Emory Jones: You know what I'm saying? Being creative and just on these walks, you get people around from all walks of life and they creative and just meet people and talk. And by the time we done, everybody's like, man, I needed that. Like, we had a lawyer that was one of our friends, he brought a lawyer walk with us. And he came in to talk to his board. And the first day he walked in and told the board, y'all know Emory Jones? He's like, man, I went on a walk with Emory Jones. It really helped change my life. This is a real established guy. And he said, I done came around and met a new friend. As we done became the best of friends, right? On top of business and everything else. But it's just back to those basics of getting outside, breathing and understanding that and letting the business and relationships walk off of that. So I'm just looking forward to walking the world this year, man. Like, everywhere I go, I want to walk the world, get a group of good people, walk. Because I feel like if I can create that, like, that's the room, the walk, the group is the walk.
0:42:03.8 Emory Jones: If I create that room and navigate and narrate and hospitality that room, I know what comes out of that. A lot of business, a lot of relationships, and just a good balance of breathing right now. And I think that's where I'm at right now.
0:42:20.4 Everett Sands: The mental and the physical.
0:42:22.0 Emory Jones: That's where I'm at.
0:42:23.3 Emory Jones: I'm like, if you don't have that part in your will, and you just over here just trying to make this money and trying to this and that.
0:42:31.1 Everett Sands: I hear you, man.
0:42:31.9 Emory Jones: Yeah. So it's like, I'm looking forward to that. Looking forward to that.
0:42:35.1 Everett Sands: Yes. That's great.
0:42:35.8 Emory Jones: Yeah.
0:42:36.1 Everett Sands: Look, man, I hope in 2026 we get to hear your voice more. I think the people need it, the culture needs it. It's just something about your ethos, man.
0:42:44.0 Emory Jones: I think in 2026, we might have to get the crew around here and take a walk with us.
0:42:48.4 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:42:48.8 Emory Jones: You know what I mean? Like, I think for me with the walks, you know why? When I take you on the walk? Because most of the time, like, we just came back from door one Boston. We was in Boston. We did one around that LA reservoir, had all the top retail sneaker stores, took them around, but set the tone. Then when I go on and talk, you hear me different, not the other way around. So you go. The walk is to set you up and be balanced for when we go in. And I do speak, it's a different feeling. You register it different. You know what I mean? So I think that's the beauty of the walks for me and what I'm looking forward with 2026.
0:43:30.2 Everett Sands: Yeah. That's great, man. Well, it's a pleasure, man. Great having you. Great talking to you. Always a pleasure. Thanks for hanging out with us on Small Business Unscripted. Want more? Visit us on smallbusinessunscripted.com for helpful resources, additional episodes and to keep the conversation going...