Kevin Keane has spent decades helping Fortune 500 companies navigate transformation—and he's bringing that same Fortune 500 playbook to small businesses.
Kevin Keane started his career at PwC learning one thing above all else: the most valuable thing a consultant can do is tell leaders what no one inside the building will. From there he built a career helping major companies (including Toyota's massive relocation and merger to Plano, Texas) that broke most organizations.
Now as COO of Directed Action, he's focused on making those same tools accessible to small businesses.
Kevin and Everett dig into what management consulting actually is (and when you actually need it), why transformation fails when leaders can't articulate their why, and how a disciplined process of asking the right questions—not having all the answers—is what separates a great consultant from an expensive talker. Kevin also makes the case that the most valuable first step for any entrepreneur is going to a banker: because a lender will tell you the truth.
Follow Small Business Unscripted so you never miss a conversation.
3 Takeaways:
Chapters:
[01:31] How Kevin Got Into Consulting
[02:45] Why Companies Hire Consultants
[08:38] Big vs. Small Company Playbooks
[10:51] Why Innovation Needs a Clear Purpose
[12:22] Toyota's Business Transformation Story
[17:32] How Founders Should Value Their Time
[19:51] Finding Mentors and Building Skills
[27:08] Small Transformations That Matter
[30:17] The Reality of Business Funding
[32:14] Aligning Culture and Core Values
[34:15] Most Common Business Mistakes
[35:50] Affordable Business Help Options
[37:49] DIY Consulting Using AI Tools
Kevin’s Highlights:
"You have to tell 'em their babies ugly. You have to be independent enough and confident enough to say to leaders, this isn't working."
"You're simply not gonna grow in a very effective way unless you can understand what your personal value proposition is—beyond the fact that you're a founder."
Connect:
Kevin Keane: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinakeane/
Everett Sands: www.linkedin.com/in/everettksands
Resources:
Learn more about Lendistry: lendistry.com
Learn more about Directed Action: https://directedaction.com/
Want to learn from Kevin and the team at Directed Action? Find upcoming events: https://actionpath.directedaction.com/events/
0:00:00.2 Kevin Keane: Part of the issue with big companies and large companies is you have to tell them their baby's ugly. You have to be independent enough and confident enough to be able to say to leaders, "This isn't working. What you're doing doesn't make sense," or be able to say, "Here's your options and here's the consequences." You're just simply not going to grow in a very effective way unless you can understand what your personal value proposition is beyond the fact that you're a founder.
0:00:22.8 Everett Sands: That's Kevin Keane, chief operating officer at Directed Action, a boutique management consulting firm. Today, Kevin shares how small businesses can apply enterprise-level strategies to their own growth and change. I'm Everett Sands, your host and the CEO of Lendistry. This is Small Business Unscripted. Well, welcome to Small Business Unscripted, Kevin. It's a pleasure to have you here.
0:00:58.1 Kevin Keane: Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.
0:01:00.4 Everett Sands: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I always kinda start in the beginning asking leaders kinda what's on their mind, but I actually have a direct question. So I'm going to ask you to put these three in order. There's no wrong answer. Top of mind for you personally as a leader right now, career, compensation, quality of life.
0:01:08.8 Kevin Keane: Quality of life.
0:01:17.1 Everett Sands: Okay. And how do you define that?
0:01:19.0 Kevin Keane: Flexibility on how I spend my time. If I can spend time how I need to, if I can visit my kids. I was just the assistant to the assistant coach at my eighth-grade son's flag football team. That's...
0:01:30.0 Everett Sands: I would love that.
0:01:32.9 Kevin Keane: Yeah. That's really, for me, that's what it's all about at this point.
0:01:36.5 Everett Sands: That's awesome. So let's go back. Let's talk a little bit about your journey. You started at Price Waterhouse and Cooper.
0:01:39.3 Kevin Keane: I did.
0:01:42.2 Everett Sands: All right. Tell me what you did there.
0:01:43.8 Kevin Keane: Yeah. So I graduated from business school, and when they hired me, I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing. They wanted a consultant. I'm like, "I could do that." Right? Graduated from business school. But I ended up getting into their practice that's focused on finance and accounting, process improvement, and really process transformation. And what was great about it, it was an apprenticeship. It was one of those things where no one expects you to know everything, and so you learn from people who do know what they're doing. And that was kind of the... It was a great foundation to understand and learn in a very safe environment, how you help other companies, how you help leaders, things like that. And it's something that I found interesting for me personally because I had great ambitions around, "I'm going to help the world and the CEOs," and all those things. And what I realized is like, yeah, it's not as exciting or it's not as grandiose. It's really this one-on-one interaction and helping understand people, and that's what really attracted me to that. And you actually make a very tangible difference. No one's hiring you just for fun, they expect an outcome. So it's also very tangible.
0:02:49.8 Everett Sands: That's interesting. Just for our audience that maybe doesn't understand, because most people see the Big Four as accounting firms.
0:02:53.7 Kevin Keane: Right.
0:02:57.6 Everett Sands: However, there are so many auxiliary services and other services that are available.
0:03:02.8 Kevin Keane: That's right.
0:03:04.0 Everett Sands: So why does someone hire a consultant? And I realize there's a whole different bunch of reasons why they might bring you in, but just give us some reasons just so our audience kinda understands. Because what we're trying to teach the audience here a little bit is how they can leverage third parties...
0:03:17.1 Kevin Keane: Ah, perfect.
0:03:17.7 Everett Sands: For whatever they might want to do, grow the business, et cetera.
0:03:20.3 Kevin Keane: So there's a couple reasons. So let's talk first about consulting. We can talk about professional services first. So professional services are things like accounting and things like maybe real estate or finance or where it's really... It's not a product, but you're working with somebody because of their intelligence and experience and know-how. Right? So within the management consulting piece, which is the space, and we can look at the Big Four. Typically what you see is they do one or three or four things. They do accounting, and sometimes they call it attestation and some things, but it's basically checking the box.
0:03:44.4 Everett Sands: Gotcha.
0:03:51.1 Kevin Keane: Related to that is auditing. So we'll put that to one side. And then they do a lot of, I'll call it merger and acquisition, right? Advisory on deals and really how to restructure their business and things like that.
0:03:59.3 Everett Sands: Got it.
0:04:07.5 Kevin Keane: And then the management consulting is where I've played. And management consulting is effectively the approach where you have to help companies change. They have some change that they need to make internally, and you have to assist them. Now, that could fall into a couple things. It could be, "We need a new product line. We need to integrate these two businesses or integrate these manufacturing," or, "Hey, we've just kinda lost a few senior folks. We think we need to reorganize." And the reason they bring us in is a couple-fold, number one, they need arms and legs. They can't do it themselves. Number two is there's a very short window, and they want to be able to turn this around and get it done very quickly. Third is subject matter expertise. So again, finance industry is very, very different than other industries. So if you understand finance, now you're in a better position to help a financial or a company. But I think the reason most, at least what I've seen in my approach is, they need an objective third party. It's funny, I was talking last week, we were on a panel talking with the folks that are doing the World Cup and the mayor's office, and we had the same question, which is, "What do you tell small businesses?" And part of the issue with big companies and large companies is you have to tell them their baby's ugly. You have to say, "Look, you're not..." "This isn't working."
0:05:29.0 Everett Sands: Isn't ready yet.
0:05:29.4 Kevin Keane: Yeah. And so you have to be independent enough and confident enough to be able to say to leaders, "This isn't working. What you're doing doesn't make sense," or be able to say, "Here's your options and here's the consequences." So that's really, I think, those four reasons why people hire consultants.
0:05:46.2 Everett Sands: Reasoning/feedback. I think that's really important because sometimes as entrepreneurs we have very rosy-colored glasses. We think this is going to happen and we can't quite appreciate either the time it's going to take to execute or what it takes to execute. And it's interesting because obviously we're in finance. So that's like one of our first questions, like, "Okay, you're going to develop a new product. How long is it going to take?" If you say less than 90 days, we don't believe you. Just because we see so many people try to... Yeah. We don't say that, right? But we are sitting there with a bit of a prejudice that says, "Look, it took everybody else 180 days, 365 days, and those are the best of the best." And then you come and you say, "Oh, I only need 90 days of working capital." The skepticism, we're already cynical, so the skepticism starts coming in and different things.
0:06:31.2 Kevin Keane: That's true. You're truthful.
0:06:34.1 Everett Sands: Right. That's right.
0:06:34.8 Kevin Keane: That's what you are.
0:06:35.9 Everett Sands: We tried.
0:06:36.5 Kevin Keane: You're truthful.
0:06:37.5 Everett Sands: Right.
0:06:37.7 Kevin Keane: I think though that... So here's what I think is interesting, and it applies to large enterprises as well as small enterprises, which is part of the consulting is just somebody else. I view it almost like, if you remember, Ronald Reagan had this kitchen cabinet in California and he did that. I almost view that as as important first is to say, "Who are the five people you like, know, and trust that you respect and believe in you?" Start with them as your consultants because what they'll do is get you grounded into the domain or the theater or the focus where they'll continue to test you and they'll be honest with you, straightforward. Now, when you get into the subject matter expertise, now is when I'd start bringing in other folks. But I think foundationally, part of what we learned from an enterprise view and how do you do enterprise transformation and bring it in is you have to have a background of people that will tell you the truth and provide guidance in a very candid way that they're a disinterested third party. They want you to be successful. And I think that's as important as anything else getting started. Because now you have somebody that you could talk to.
0:07:45.7 Everett Sands: Yeah. I've had entrepreneurs talk to me about a board and, "What does a board do?" But in talking to them, they really need a consultant. Right? And it's hard because I know some entrepreneurs think the board should do it all and some entrepreneurs think the consultant should do it all. But there is a good balance in having both, right? And especially when it comes to subject matter expertise or having been in the room with others that have went through a similar, let's call it product rollout or something else. I just find that having that right balance is really, really important to some of the entrepreneurs we're talking to.
0:08:21.9 Kevin Keane: I think, too, the model that we use for this is, "I can tell you what needs to happen," and that's the advisory. That would be the board piece. "I can consult you and now say, "Okay, this is what you should do. I'm going to give you some templates and guidance on that." And then the last piece is, "Okay, we're going to do it together." So I think the advisory piece as we were talking about board is really subject matter experts. "What would you do? What would you think? What do you view as an issue and risk?" But consulting is much more collaborative and interactive.
0:08:38.9 Everett Sands: Yeah. Makes sense.
0:08:55.9 Kevin Keane: But I think the key, though, and it's both for small businesses, it's got to be fingers on keyboard. It's got to be somebody that's going to do the work with you as opposed to talking about all the things you're doing wrong and you need to do...
0:09:09.3 Everett Sands: Yeah. Very high-level. No.
0:09:10.5 Kevin Keane: Yeah, yeah.
0:09:11.1 Everett Sands: I love that. The consultancy is more the roll-up-your-sleeves, do-it-with-you and collaboration versus the board is more of an advisory. That's [0:09:17.7] ____
0:09:18.1 Kevin Keane: You get smart people that can give you guidance, but that's... You just need the brain.
0:09:23.7 Everett Sands: So you've worked at some major companies?
0:09:25.5 Kevin Keane: Yes.
0:09:27.4 Everett Sands: Tell us your experience at those and how you look at that comparative consultancy?
0:09:31.5 Kevin Keane: I think I would frame it as large companies versus small companies and large, we'll say Fortune 500 companies, versus smaller consulting firms. The larger you get, the more disciplined you have to be and structured in everything that you do.
0:09:42.9 Everett Sands: Makes sense. Yeah.
0:09:46.5 Kevin Keane: You've gone through the same thing yourself.
0:09:47.4 Everett Sands: Makes sense. Absolutely.
0:09:48.0 Kevin Keane: And as you get bigger and you start expanding, more people, there's more controls and more guidance and systems. And so the discipline and methodology for doing that, it's critical because even something small can be very difficult. In a smaller firm, it's much more intimate. It's much more, "We're going to figure out how to work together." So I'm not coming... I've got methodologies and approaches and I can tell you all about that, but what do you actually need? And I like to think of things as, what's the critical path to get something done? What we see in larger companies is there are definite ways that things need to happen, "Here's how you do it." Smaller companies, there's a little bit more flexibility related to that. So that's one of the observations that I had, which is back to apprenticeship, you can learn an awful lot. And that's why accounting and consulting and some of these things are great. Finance, great for learning. And then you learn and say, "Okay, this is what I like, this is what I don't like. This is what I believe in, this is what I don't believe in." And I think with what I've seen with smaller firms, at least, and this goes for entrepreneurs, the values are much closer to the surface. They're aligned with people. And that's one of those things where it becomes, I guess, a preference of do you want to continue to be in a large part, which is great. Or smaller where you have more control, more intimacy, really living the values on a day-to-day basis.
0:11:07.4 Everett Sands: I see some smaller companies that really like being small because, to your point, the culture is a little bit more intact from their perspective, of course, and they still have that innovation. I think sometimes the smaller companies still, though, need to get to that next level and they're afraid they're going to lose that innovative ability, right? So how do you look at that when you think about big companies? Like what's some of the things or traits you've seen in some of those companies that could still be innovative even though they might be larger?
0:11:35.9 Kevin Keane: Right. I'll speak for myself is there's a lot of opportunity to make money. Right? So this isn't a question of... But if your goal is to make money, then that's a problem. Because you can make money anywhere, but now say, "I'm going to go consulting because I want to make money." It's like, "Yeah, you could probably do that." So I think the innovation piece that you're talking about, you really have to have a strong why and let that drive you. It has to be, "What are we here for? Why are we doing this? What is our vision?" Now we can start the innovation. But if you don't have that and you're like, "Oh, I'm going to make money," you could do anything. It doesn't matter at that point. So I think the innovation goes with very clear tying to mission and vision. And I think large corporations that can do that have a much faster return on innovation...
0:12:23.5 Everett Sands: Interesting.
0:12:24.2 Kevin Keane: Where they understand what they're trying to do or they understand the direction, it's aligned with their mission, and now they can run off and do it as opposed to, I'm going to say, just R&D. And the difference would be we're going to do some pharmaceutical development versus we want to start a new business or a new industry or new something else as part of a new product line. So that's what I would say is the business really making sure you understand why you're doing things and let that be the guide, and then you can grow from there. Yeah.
0:12:53.9 Everett Sands: That's cool. So staying on that topic, you've helped with some transformative movements inside of companies. If you can, could you share one?
0:13:03.8 Kevin Keane: Sure.
0:13:04.3 Everett Sands: And then as you're thinking about that, I'll keep going. But then what does that do for you? Because I know what it's like as a company when we win, but I honestly don't know how our third parties feel sometimes. I mean, I think they're happy about it, right? And I see them, they seem excited. But I wonder, is this a personal win for them or career win for them? Because they're not a part of Lendistry per se, but they were definitely integral in what we did. So just curious from that third-party consultant, are you like, "Yeah, that's my career's adjusted to or changed to or been improved to?"
0:13:38.0 Kevin Keane: Yeah. So 2014, Toyota announced that they were leaving and moving to Plano, Texas. So Toyota has a manufacturing company, a sales company, and they were moving to Texas. So they asked us to help with just the overall program of moving people to Texas. But more importantly, it was effectively a merger. You have two different companies, but you had to merge a lot of your accounting and finance and technology and HR and your systems and things like that. So we were assisting in the program of that and helping to manage that. What was interesting for me anyway is watching the growth and development of people that we helped. And it gets back to... You have the answers, right? So in some cases it's, I think from a consulting standpoint, it's knowing the right questions to ask versus, "Oh, I've done a thousand shared services, so we can go do that." It's understanding you. So one of the things that I think we learned was, again, back to what is the purpose? Why are we doing this? Because what we find in these large transformations, it's not like it's great for everybody. It is not.
0:14:46.9 Kevin Keane: And oftentimes it can be a little bit painful.
0:14:47.2 Everett Sands: That's right. That's right.
0:14:50.1 Kevin Keane: So you really have to have a strong why. Related to that is you have to have an executive that has the integrity and believability to say, "Yeah, this is why we're doing it. This is why I support it," but then also be very empathetic. So what's interesting... So we do a lot of work on business continuity, and certainly with the fires and things like that. One of the things that pops up in business continuity is you have a disaster recovery plan and then you have a resilience plan and things like that is, the first thing you have to do is take care of your people. So if you look at disaster recovery and you think of fires and earthquakes and all those things that go on here in Los Angeles, actually, the first thing you have to do is take care of your people. Because if you don't, the rest of your business continuity plan doesn't...
0:15:34.6 Everett Sands: Doesn't work.
0:15:35.3 Kevin Keane: Doesn't mean anything. So with change, with strategic change and transformational change, you have to start with the why and be very clear on that. And then you have to understand, we call it WIIFM, "What's In It For Me?" Right?
0:15:49.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:15:50.6 Kevin Keane: And now you have to dig deep and understand, "Well, where are you coming from and what's important to you and why is it important to you and where do you think you'll be on this position?" Because now I can understand how do I engage you as a stakeholder regardless of what you're doing. So I think that transformation really starts with the why, and then it gets down to understanding individuals and where they're at. Once we have that and it's a platform now that we can start having candid conversations, now we can get into the conversation of, "Okay, what do you want to be when you grow up? And what problem are you solving?" And even SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. Why do you think that's important? Because you've got folks on the same page, at least emotionally on the same page. They're prepared to engage and they know the questions, but they know they trust somebody. You know what? I appreciate people buy into the leader before they buy into the vision.
0:16:43.9 Everett Sands: Absolutely.
0:16:44.6 Kevin Keane: And so in many cases with strategic transformation, it's a little bit of a test of, do I believe you and trust you? Do I know you and trust you? And I think part of the consulting piece is making sure that that's very, very apparent, that the person who's up in front talking about what's happening, that they can clearly articulate it and they believe it and people trust them. Now transformation becomes a lot easier as opposed to, "You're going to acquire a small bank." It's like, "That's not... What you're talking about?" As opposed to, "Hey, look, this is how we're expanding and this is what we're doing." So I think that transformation piece is understanding the why, knowing the values, and then being able to communicate that down to your folks so you have a very robust platform to start making those changes.
0:17:32.1 Everett Sands: I think it's also important to thinking about some of the growth here at Lendistry. There are times where, to your point, I hope most of our team has trusted me as a leader, but I don't know that all small business leaders understand that sometimes we have to step out and we need to get that professional to kind of help us with the execution, right? Because a lot of this is about execution. When you see the business kind of grow from one level to the next level to the next level, it's not just the vision, so to speak, of the entrepreneur or the charisma of the entrepreneur. That's obviously part of it, right? But what I'm hoping that the audience gets in our conversation is that there's actually some systematic processes to growing or to adjusting or to pivoting. And that's why I think this conversation is really, really pivotal as we guide them, right? To entrepreneurs, I can speak for myself, you do need somebody to tell you your baby's ugly. You might not be as comfortable, and some people need to do it on Zoom versus face-to-face.
0:18:27.5 Kevin Keane: That's right. That's right. Your babies are not ugly, by the way.
0:18:30.1 Everett Sands: Thank you.
0:18:30.6 Kevin Keane: Other babies are.
0:18:31.9 Everett Sands: But you get my point, right? Sometimes you have this almost irrational idea because you're an entrepreneur. That's what you're supposed to have.
0:18:39.3 Kevin Keane: That's right.
0:18:40.4 Everett Sands: But you need someone to help you with the systematic implementation and execution of that, which we now generally call transformation.
0:18:47.9 Kevin Keane: That's right. Yeah. Let's talk about that for a little bit. When a business is small, you are dependent on the CEO, the founder, the entrepreneur. And so often what we see, guilty myself, and I'm sure you're guilty, is the entrepreneur mindset to get started is very different than how to grow and how to mature, right?
0:19:05.5 Everett Sands: That's right. Yeah.
0:19:06.7 Kevin Keane: So part of the way to have those conversations with leaders is to say, "Tell me how you spend your time." And then we go back and say, "Okay, what is the things that only you can do? And what are the things that other people can do? And what are the things that other people should do?" And again, this gets back to transformation and the advisory piece, because if you are now, we'll just do, "Hey, look, I want to start doing a podcast and I'm going to buy equipment and I'm going to... In my basement, I'm going to do all that stuff." It's like, "All right, well, is that the highest value that I can provide?" And so now what happens, I think, is you can now go out in the marketplace, and it's very simple to say, "All right, let's... You put an hourly rate, say, "This is how much I'm worth." And then now you look at that and say, "Right, well, if I'm, just say, a hundred dollars an hour, can I get somebody to do it for that amount or even a little bit more? Because now I don't have to do it." So I think from an entrepreneurial standpoint is there's a little letting go, right? Because what got you there, that fire and we want to do it. And now as you start to mature and recognize that you need to grow, I think it's helpful to say, "Where are you spending your time?" And then go back and say, "Are there other people that can do this better, faster, cheaper in some cases than I could do that?" And now that's where I want to go. But if you're not at that point, we can't really help you, right? Unless you... You've got to be humble and look... And it's difficult, but you're just simply not going to grow in a very effective way unless you can understand what your personal value proposition is beyond the fact that you're a founder.
0:20:45.3 Everett Sands: So when you're talking to leaders or entrepreneurs, how do you tell them, "Hey, a restructure or pivot is needed"? Are they generally coming to you and, "Hey, help me execute," or is it something you point out to them like, "Have you thought about this kind of thing?"
0:20:58.4 Kevin Keane: Yeah. So let's look at some of the triggers, right? So COVID was a trigger, the fire is a trigger.
0:21:02.4 Everett Sands: Sure.
0:21:02.8 Kevin Keane: Some of those are kind of obvious. The Olympics are coming up here in Los Angeles. Right? That question, I think, is looming for a number of people, which is, "Am I pivoting now?" And you have that sense of, "What do I need to do different?" In addition, as we were talking about, just checking the news every day and finding out if there is some major change going on. So it could come from many different ways. The impetus, though, is, "I think I need to change. There's something going on and that's the part that I need to review." So that's usually the impetus of some kind, where it's either gradually building, there's some major event that has occurred related to that. But it's that recognition, "Oh, I think I might need to do something about this," that starts the process. And then the remaining process is a very disciplined way that we go through and have conversations and talk and talk about strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. What do you think the opportunity is yourself? And that kind of gets us through that part. So I think with small businesses, in some cases, it's just financial stability. "Hey, this isn't working. We need to do it." It could be a customer coming in. So they come in a couple of different ways. Regardless of where they come, the process is the same. Right? So it's not like, "Oh, you're losing a customer. We need to do something different." It's like, "No, we follow this process, a disciplined process, so we cover everything and make sure that they understand what the future is."
0:22:20.4 Everett Sands: Two topics I'm thinking about there. One is how do the leaders grow? I constantly have CEOs or owners reach out to me and say, "Everett, what are you using to grow yourself?" Right? Because maybe they're not used to going into a classroom and don't have time to go into a classroom. And that's a combination of podcasts, what they're reading, what they're seeing, different things like that. But I also spend time with them and say, "Who are your consultants on this particular subject matter? Who's your advisor?" or something like that. And then the second part is I do think there are just some of us that learn by doing.
0:22:49.5 Kevin Keane: So leadership development, I think, is absolutely... There's battle tests that you have to go through. You can learn online and read, and I think that's great. For me, it's talking to smart people that I like, know, and trust, or people that have a very different perspective, because that helps me with a different way of thinking. And now I can get into blind spots that I hadn't contemplated. So for leadership development, I think it's absolutely key that as an individual, you have your own mentors, regardless of the C in front of your name or the O or the E. It doesn't matter. Regardless, you need mentors. And then also you need, I think, to expose yourself to lots of different folks and lots of different ways of thinking so that you're not trying to be, "How do I be the best CEO for a financial services company? How to be the best person and the best professional."
0:23:42.9 Everett Sands: Interesting.
0:23:45.3 Kevin Keane: And then all those things, because you can't separate yourself and say, "All right, well, this is me as a CEO versus me as a father or me as a coach or me as anything." You're still the same person. So exposing yourself to more folks, I think, allows that opportunity. But I firmly believe you need mentors and you need that kitchen cabinet that we've talked about so that people will be very candid with you from a development... There's a point where you, as a leader and executive, you're not going to grow unless you do. There's no growth. I can read whatever I want to, but at least for me, and I'm sure for you and others, it's fingers on keyboard. I got to do stuff. I got to do stuff.
0:24:23.4 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:24:23.7 Kevin Keane: I can tell you in theory, but unless I do it. So I think that's really key is making sure that you're constantly introducing yourself to other leaders, get their perspective, and then from that, that's how you grow.
0:24:35.7 Everett Sands: Thanks, Kevin, for that. Now we'll have a quick word from our our boss, Lendistry customer. We'll be right back.
[music]
0:24:45.0 Kam Horton: My name is Kam Horton and I am the owner of Kazi Blooms, and we're located in Diamond Bar, California. My business is a non-toxic relaxation bar. The idea is it's a place for working professionals to come, relax, and enjoy some self-care services. Before working with Lendistry, I think as a small business owner, we were all facing recovery from COVID and the shutdown. Lendistry came at a time when small business owners really needed some direction along with support. So they were able to help us navigate through getting the funding that we needed. That someone really took interest and truly partnered and linked arms with us, it restored my hope in the fact that we weren't out there alone. So at a personal level, it was of support to me to help me regain my trust and confidence within the community. And then from a professional level, it helped my business to pay off our light bill and have some operating support. I would recommend Lendistry, and I have recommended Lendistry many times because of the level of support that they provide to a small business owner.
0:25:55.8 Everett Sands: So we're back here with Kevin Keane, Chief Operating Officer over at Direct Action. He's helped lead strategic transformations, whether it be at the C-level, with the current company, or as a consultant for many businesses. And so love having your expertise and continuing to talk to you. So we'll continue our conversation but...
0:26:12.3 Kevin Keane: All right. I have a question for you.
0:26:13.1 Everett Sands: All right.
0:26:13.8 Kevin Keane: You have a grandfather who is a tailor.
0:26:16.1 Everett Sands: Yes. I do.
0:26:18.7 Kevin Keane: Made a big impact on your life. Can you give a little background on that?
0:26:22.0 Everett Sands: Sure. The thing about my grandfather, so 1930s, my family came from Texas to D.C., migrated. He had the skill of being a tailor, and he ended up doing tailoring for a variety of different customers. And this is everything from vice presidents of the U.S. to local community. The way I tend to tell people is the tailoring shop was the equivalent to what we would call a barbershop or beauty salon today. Because you had to get... There was no measure. You had to actually be measured. Someone took a tape, put it around your neck, put it around your arm. And you sat there for hours and waited for your pants and waited for your shirt, and you might come back for your suit or something. But you can imagine if you're sitting there and you and I are talking, we're waiting a couple hours, it becomes a really big kind of community interaction that was going on. So his shop was known as a community place of business. And because of who would kind of come through the shop and different things like that, my grandfather, from people that I would talk to, it's like, "Oh, I was sitting there and I had a shirt made.
0:27:29.3 Everett Sands: I was there for two hours and I got to meet the mayor of D.C. Or I got to meet this person," or something like that. So that's kind of what I grew up in. So that's one part. The second part is I am not artistic at all. I can't even draw stick figures. So I was allowed to sweep the floor and work the cash register. So I think the second lesson there is for those of us who've been part of a small business, it's you get to kind of know how it works when you take out the trash and you sweep the floors and you see your parents or your grandparents kind of scratching their head like, "Oh, I got to make payroll," or "I got to do something. I got to figure out how to buy product or supplies." And then the third thing, which is probably a little bit closer to Lendistry, is he had gotten to a point where he had a whole block, a city block. He had an apprenticeship school, and then he had the tailoring shop.
0:28:18.8 Kevin Keane: Oh my gosh.
0:28:19.9 Everett Sands: And unfortunately, very similar to today, veterans would come home and they wouldn't have jobs, and so he would teach them the art of tailoring. So this city block and this location were great, and he had multiple locations, but he ended up losing a lot of it. And my analysis of it, the truth is, I don't know the whole story because some of it's urban legend. But my analysis of it is he got some bad financial advice. And very much what we would probably call predatory lending today or some version of that. And so what it then caused is disruption. Disruption in the household financials, losing a home, losing some of the locations, scaling back. And so I personally have always said I'm going to help small businesses because I didn't get to help my grandfather. So I look at all the small businesses as if they're my grandfather. And that's my goal. My goal is like, you can come in and say, "I'm a consultant," you can come in and say, "I make widgets," I still think of you as my grandfather. And honestly, there's something deep inside of me that just wishes I could have done it.
0:29:24.5 Kevin Keane: I'm feeling it right here, my friend. I'm feeling it.
0:29:26.6 Everett Sands: I really wish I could have been there for it. And so it sparks my competitive juices, my emotional thought process, my... Why wasn't... I've had every question to, personally inside of myself, from "Why wasn't I born 10 years earlier?" to "Why didn't he live a little bit longer?" There's so many thoughts that go through my head. And so that's what drives me. That's my why. And that's what allows me to also be innovative, complex, stay up late, fight through declines, anything that might be going on with Lendistry. Great question.
0:30:00.8 Kevin Keane: So if your grandfather was here, we would ask him, "Why did you do an apprenticeship?" Right? And that might not be a big T transformation, but it's certainly a small T transformation. And I think it's important, and I'm glad you shared that, because in some cases, we don't even call it a transformation. It's something that happens like, "Oh, hey, Olympics are coming. I think I should do this." And it's like, "Let me see if it works." And so it's a side hustle or it's a gig, or it's nothing that is, "We're going to have a grand opening and here's the new transformation."
0:30:17.9 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:30:35.0 Kevin Keane: Many times what happens, I think, with small businesses, you just got to try it. You got to pilot it. And if there's a customer that's pulling you, I think that makes a big difference. My parents are... My father's an immigrant from Ireland, and my mom's parents are immigrants. And one of the things that I find interesting, and I appreciate you telling your story, is when my father came over, it was... He was ambitious, but more importantly, he wanted to be worthy of the opportunity to be in the United States, worthy of the dream, worthy of that he has the character and the work ethic to be successful. And worthiness, I think, is important for me, and it's opportunity to say, "Hey, I can do this." And at least from an entrepreneur standpoint is, being able to evaluate something and saying, "Yeah, I think I can do it better," or "I think there's an opportunity here."
0:31:26.1 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:31:28.6 Kevin Keane: And so I think the transformation, it's a great example where sometimes things happen and you don't even know. It's just happening to you, and you're along for the ride, and all of a sudden it's bigger, and that's okay too. But in many cases, it's not a formal big T. It's a little T. It may not even be a T. It's a "I'm going to go try this or make it happen," and then all of a sudden it gets evolved. But there's something about entrepreneurship where you may be blinded to reality, and that's great for a while. You just do it. And you don't listen to anybody. You make it happen. And then there's a step back to say, "Okay, if I'm going to grow it and move beyond this, then I need to do that." But that's a great story, and I'm a fan of really tying back to the why. Because I think that that's really... That's what sticks after all this stuff.
0:32:20.9 Everett Sands: But one of the things with this podcast and with other things we're trying to do is we're trying to help that business owner think about how they go to the next level. Right? Because that great idea can be transformation to the community. Now, it could be twofold. It could literally be the service product offering, but it also could be the jobs that it creates or something else. And then, of course, the economics that factor into that money kind of circulating inside of the community has its own bonuses and benefits. But those are some of the things that I think about, too, when I'm talking to the entrepreneur and I'm saying to him, "Okay, tell me your why. How big could this be?" And part of the reason to have you here and continue with this podcast is entrepreneurs need to know kind of how to get through that middle. Right?
0:32:58.0 Kevin Keane: That's right.
0:33:06.1 Everett Sands: How do you go from kind of small business to middle business or medium business, medium business to big business and large business? And there's so many steps that they got to take, and they need help along that journey.
0:33:18.2 Kevin Keane: One of the things I found working with small businesses and large businesses, a little plug for Lendistry, is talking to somebody who loans money will give you truth.
0:33:30.0 Everett Sands: Yes.
0:33:30.7 Kevin Keane: Big T, little T, it'll give you truth. And so I find it enormously valuable talking to small businesses related to, "Do you have a business case? Do you have your financials laid out?" It's not required. Right? So it's not like you need all that stuff and if you don't have it, you're not going to do it. But what it allows you to do is to work with folks like you and say, "Okay, here's the reality as it exists to get this money." It's the market. The market is telling you this. The point that you made earlier, I think, is absolutely critical, which is you have to go through that process. Talk to a banker, talk to somebody in financial services. Let them tell you what they think of what you're doing. I almost think that that's a really good first step because you'll get the truth.
0:34:15.5 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:34:16.0 Kevin Keane: You'll get whether somebody will invest in you. Not investment, but a loan or a grant, whatever that is. I think that's enormously helpful, and it focuses the mind on whatever you think you're thinking. Unless there is somebody that's either going to buy your services or fund your services, this is the reality that you have to deal with. So my recommendation, first step is get it on paper and go talk to somebody in financial services, even an accountant or a banker or somebody that's going to lend money, because they have to tell you that they... There's a yes or no at the end of this.
0:34:48.4 Everett Sands: Yeah. We...
0:34:48.6 Kevin Keane: So yes or no.
0:34:49.9 Everett Sands: We teach entrepreneurs you got to understand the path to success. Because once the emotions are gone, it's that path that you really need to follow and the steps in them.
0:34:59.3 Kevin Keane: That's right.
0:35:00.2 Everett Sands: Or recognize you can't follow it, pivot...
0:35:02.1 Kevin Keane: That's right.
0:35:02.5 Everett Sands: Find somebody to help you follow it, whatever it needs to be. I think one of the things as we're talking about the why is also just culture, right? What's your thought process on culture? How have you seen it work or not work? Whatever you'd like to share with our audience.
0:35:14.9 Kevin Keane: In addition to understanding why, culture's right up there. Because now I can interact and work and know that we share the same beliefs. We talked earlier about growth and, "Am I in this to make money, and do I want to achieve something?" What we find are, if you look at folks that are, let's say, in it for the money, the culture will be whatever it needs to be. It'll just go as it needs to go and that. When you have a strong set of values and a strong culture, that will now inform you, as it did for you, "Hey, what makes sense, and is this consistent?" I also think, let's go back to talking about consultants and how you grow. You've come across, I've come across folks where within the first few minutes, like, "I'm not going to work with this person at all whatsoever." Right? So for me, it's really who are the people I can work with that I share the same values, that I trust their guidance and knowledge and expertise.
0:36:17.0 Kevin Keane: And that begins to help the culture and define the culture. One of the things that's important for us is what we call managing the critical path. And that is only doing what's needed to achieve the goal, not necessarily because this is the way we always do it. And that's important for us because we want folks that are fingers on keyboard, dedicated to that. That is absolutely a critical value for us. So we talk to people, we ask, "Are you fingers on keyboard? Do you do work or do you rely on others to go do it?" Because we're working for a living. This isn't one of those we're going to sit back and talk and do white papers. We might do a podcast, but... So that part's really critical. So culture, leader, culture, vision, they have to be fully integrated because it's very easy to tell. You get up and talk, it's like, "This guy's, someone gave him some note cards to read, but he doesn't believe it."
0:37:06.6 Everett Sands: Now tell me, how do you think about the mistakes that businesses have made? I mean, obviously in addition to not having the right culture, people who take action or fingers on keyboards, as you would say, what's some of the mistakes you think people make?
0:37:20.0 Kevin Keane: Yeah. That's a good question. I think some of this is, as we've talked about, misalignment on your why. And if we look again at what's going on right now with LA 28 and the Olympics that are coming up, a lot of folks are interested in getting a piece of the action, right? $7.2 billion that could be spent. But you have to go back and say, "Why are we doing this?" Because the farther you get away from what we'd call your truth or your why, the riskier it gets for you. So oftentimes what we see are folks that are chasing the dollar or chasing something that seems like an opportunity, but it's inconsistent with who they are, inconsistent with their values. So that's definitely something that we see versus folks that are making an earnest, honest effort to say, "I think this is an opportunity. I've thought through it. It's consistent." And there's some failure. That's great failure. I mean, that's exactly what we want, is to learn and grow and do that. Other folks that are out there, again, I'm going to say trying to make a buck or something, it gets very difficult. You can only hold on to that for so long where you're, "Yeah, we think there's an opportunity and we're going to go do this and try to make more money." It's like they're easy to spot. And that's why it's so important that you surround yourself with people that share your same values and can align and be able to tell you the truth and say, "Yeah, this isn't who you are. This is who you are, and you shouldn't do it."
0:38:41.4 Everett Sands: So we probably have some small businesses out there who have never hired a consultant. In the unfortunate case, maybe they can't afford a consultant. Are there some alternatives you might think that they should at least look into?
0:38:52.8 Kevin Keane: Yeah. That's a good question. So the good news is there's a number of resources for small businesses. Chambers of commerce have them, SBA has a bunch of those. So one way to start is to go to one of the free services that can be provided. The Lendistry nonprofit that you have is also a great resource. So that's always a good place to start because it will check your assumptions.
0:39:08.1 Everett Sands: Yes.
0:39:17.2 Kevin Keane: Like, "I need a consultant," or, "I don't need a consultant."
0:39:18.8 Everett Sands: Makes sense.
0:39:20.3 Kevin Keane: I would even say that's not the right question. It's the, "What are you trying to accomplish?" And now we can talk about that. Now we can say, "You can build it, you can buy it, or you can kind of merge those two and say we're going to do this growth path." So I think that's the most important part is to say, "What are we trying to accomplish?" And now, given the constraints, what's the most effective way to do it? So I would definitely say start with the SBA or start with whatever that organization that can get you aligned. And then where I would go, it's definitely through referral and talking to other folks. You can certainly go online and there's plenty of consultants, but for me, I want to know people that are known.
0:39:41.3 Everett Sands: Yes.
0:40:02.3 Kevin Keane: People that I trust. So if I were to say, "Hey, I'm looking for somebody that can do a financial plan. Do you have anybody that can do that?" I would do that as opposed to "financial planning for small businesses." That's whatever. So I would say first, be very clear on what your objective is. I would definitely get a third party, again, whatever, to say, "Do we agree that this is what you're solving for?"
0:40:25.1 Everett Sands: Sure.
0:40:26.2 Kevin Keane: And then I would use your network. I would definitely use your network. I mean, certainly you can go out and hire people. That's not a problem, but I rely on people that I know to give me guidance on people that I can hire. I will say one of the things in the transformation space what we've noticed is there's a bit of a pushback, and the environment's changing and corporations are changing in terms of bringing on a lot of consultants to get the work. Now, this is Big Four kind of consultants and even smaller than that. And part of what's happening is with artificial intelligence and the prevalence of information available online, you can get all that, right? We could take all these questions and ChatGPT it and say all that, but it's not the same.
0:41:13.4 Everett Sands: It's not the same.
0:41:15.0 Kevin Keane: So one of the things that we're thinking about for this exact purpose is we've got something called an action path community of practice, which is now to take you through a process, let's say building a strategy yourself. But we're going to tell you the process, we're going to give you the templates, we'll be available to ask you questions. So it's back to what we said before. Are we advising? Are we doing? Are we consulting? This allows the expertise of a Fortune 500 consultant that's been there, through there, but the onus now is a lot more on you to walk through it. So I think there's a model out there now where as companies grow or they decide not to grow, you still have to develop either as an executive or as somebody that wants to start their own business. And so there is a model that we're looking at to say, "Okay, here's a path for you.
0:42:04.9 Kevin Keane: You need a business strategy or a succession plan," or whatever those things are that gives you the expertise to do that. But it's still dependent on you. You're not dependent on somebody else. So we think there's an opportunity there for that reason that consultants are money, right? A lot of money. But again, you look at the, "I can get this done a lot faster with a consultant." And so we're trying to play that so that there's more self-service in that space that you understand it. And we think there's an opportunity there for that exact reason. Folks may not want to hire a consultant. They want the knowledge and expertise, but they want a path to do it themselves. And so that's one of the things that we're looking at is how do we make what we do more accessible?
0:42:44.5 Everett Sands: Sure.
0:42:45.9 Kevin Keane: Rather than, for six weeks we're going to sit down and we're going to sit in your office and talk about all the things you do, it's, "Here's what it does."
0:42:51.8 Everett Sands: Well, Kevin, this has been a great conversation. I hope that we've helped a lot of small businesses as they think about transformation, transformational projects, mergers and acquisitions, everything like that, and really appreciate you coming.
0:43:02.7 Kevin Keane: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks.
0:43:05.2 Everett Sands: Thank you for hanging out with us on Small Business Unscripted. Want more? Head to smallbusinessunscripted.com for helpful resources, additional episodes, and to keep the conversation going. Thanks for tuning in. See you next time.
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