Robert Green, President & CEO of Dizzion, Inc., shares his journey from NASA to entrepreneurship and the lessons he’s learned about leadership, culture, and growth.
NASA to Silicon Valley CEO? That's Robert Green's unconventional path to launching Dizzion, Inc., a secure virtual desktop company that's changing how we think about cloud computing.
But here's what makes Robert different: he brings a scientist's mindset to the busy world of entrepreneurship. Robert and Everett dig into why great products still need brilliant marketing, how to raise money without losing your soul, and why being honest with your team (even when it hurts) builds the kind of culture that actually lasts.
Robert:
“Science is really just a framework for solving problems—and leadership can be broken down in the same way.”
“A great product doesn’t sell itself. Without marketing, messaging, and value, even the best ideas can die on the shelf.”
“Resilience means owning your mistakes, being accountable, and never running away.”
Links & Resources:
Timestamps:
01:00 – Career, compensation, or quality of life?
01:55 – From NASA to Silicon Valley
04:05 – Science of leadership
5:40 – Career highlights and lessons learned
9:00 – Founding Dizzion
11:30 – Building a successful team
15:50 – Overcoming setbacks and building resilience
18:30 – Lessons from customers
23:00 – Staying ahead in the tech landscape
25:20 – Advice to younger self
0:00:00.2 Robert Green: There's a lot of science in terms of methodology and approach. So think of science as here's a framework of how you go and approach a problem. And leadership can be broken down in the same way. In science, we research and we read the data. That's the feedback.
0:00:13.2 Everett Sands: Yep.
0:00:13.8 Robert Green: So in leadership, it's not just me talking all the time, it's receiving that feedback and asking for that feedback so that you get better.
0:00:20.9 Everett Sands: That's Robert Greene, president and CEO of Dizzion. He's an innovator who's taken Dizzion from a startup to a leader in cloud technology. Robert's journey covers everything from science to building a strong company culture and adapting through change. He'll share real stories and advice you can use to grow your business. I'm Everett Sands, your host and CEO of Lendistry. This is Small Business Unscripted. Welcome to Small Business Unscripted. Robert, good to see you today.
0:00:54.2 Robert Green: Thanks for having me.
0:00:55.3 Everett Sands: Yeah. So I ask every leader this question. Going to ask you this. To be clear, there's no bad answer.
0:01:00.8 Robert Green: Okay.
0:01:01.6 Everett Sands: But put these three in order of priority for me. Career, compensation, quality of life.
0:01:07.7 Robert Green: Quality of life, career, compensation.
0:01:11.3 Everett Sands: Okay. And how do you define quality of life today?
0:01:14.5 Robert Green: Well, quality of life is the time you get to spend with your family and friends. It's time you get to spend doing something you love, which is the old adage if you find something you love and you do it for a living, you'll never work a day in your life. I feel that way. That's part of quality of life.
0:01:31.8 Everett Sands: It's one of the things that I'm trying to teach the management and leadership team here at Lendistry. If you know what makes your team member tick, it's going to be a little bit easier to convey what the reward is for the hard work. All right, let's get a little bit into you and your background. I know you really well, but our audience doesn't, so I won't ask any crazy questions. But let's start with some basic stuff. I remember you used to work at NASA, and you literally have went from NASA to Silicon Valley and probably everything in between. So how do you think about that journey...? And what I'm specifically trying to get to is NASA I think we all think of science, Silicon Valley, we all think of technology. How do you think about those things and then how do they relate to your career journey?
0:02:19.1 Robert Green: Well, I think science is one of those things that's a background and how you think, and I think that has helped me well and served me well all throughout my career. Just breaking down a very complex problem into small bite-sized chunks and taking really a measured approach that's intentional around solving problems, whether that's a financial problem in a business or something around coding a new application. I think those things from a methodology standpoint have really helped me to excel in areas where it's hard to break into. So science is the way I think is scientific. I've got elite with that. I remember one job interview, I was interviewing for Rackspace and the CIO was interviewing me and he said the reason why I won out on all the other candidates is because I use a scientific methodology in my interview process.
0:03:16.0 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:03:16.7 Robert Green: So he asked me how I broke down problems and I gave him this scientific thing and he was just impressed. Called me back and I got the job. I think that really is part of how you think and how you approach problems.
0:03:31.7 Everett Sands: Now when you think of Silicon Valley on most people, I tend to think they're engineers. Now, do you equate engineer with science, first of all?
0:03:40.7 Robert Green: Yeah, I do.
0:03:41.8 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:03:42.2 Robert Green: But not all engineers take a scientific approach.
0:03:44.9 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:03:45.5 Robert Green: Engineers are very logical. Lots of people, they think in that number, zeros and ones, off and on kind of a thing. And science is very similar to that. It's just more of a disciplined approach, I would say.
0:03:57.5 Everett Sands: Right.
0:03:57.8 Robert Green: I would say.
0:03:58.7 Everett Sands: Gotcha. I'm thinking lab coats for science.
0:04:02.2 Robert Green: I did do that.
0:04:03.0 Everett Sands: Right. Of course, engineers are a little bit different. Now let's talk about science and leadership. I get the technical approach. I get the zeros and the ones as it relates to technology. But how do you break down that when you think about leadership, if you do it all? Is there any science in your leadership style?
0:04:18.8 Robert Green: Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of science in terms of methodology and approach.
0:04:22.1 Everett Sands: Right.
0:04:22.5 Robert Green: So think of science as here's a framework of how you go and approach a problem.
0:04:25.5 Everett Sands: Yeah.
0:04:26.2 Robert Green: So, you know, especially with leadership is to your point, you know, how do people tick? Like, finding out what makes them tick, finding out what motivates them, and really just kind of using that methodology over and over again. So, you know, if you go back to like when we used to do science or projects. And you had that structured approach... That same structured approach applies to just about anything in life. And leadership can be broken down in the same way. It's not as, you know, off and on, zeros and ones, so to speak. It's more of getting to know your people, understanding what makes them tick, understanding what motivates them. And then a lot of folks always want to grow, but they don't necessarily know how to grow. So it's helping those people grow in those spaces that you may know a little bit more about. But it's also, I think leadership is about getting feedback. In science, we research and we read the data, and that's the feedback. So in leadership, it's not just me talking all the time. It's receiving that feedback and asking for that feedback so that you get better. And that's the iterative approach, and that's where science really defines that leadership. It's I want to read the results and then adapt myself to that versus me just dictating.
0:05:40.4 Everett Sands: Cool. Now you worked at some pretty great companies. Not the current company you're at. Let's go the other way. You've got NASA, you've got Digex, you've got Salesforce, you've got Rackspace, you've got Accenture, you've got Citrix. Hopefully I got them all.
0:05:59.1 Robert Green: NIH as well.
0:05:59.9 Everett Sands: NIH, okay. First of all, favorite one. Hopefully you don't piss anybody off. And then I think two, let's dig a little bit into what you learned along those career journeys, not necessarily from each one, but maybe give us a thought or two.
0:06:14.3 Robert Green: I have two favorites. I think Digex was definitely where I became just enthralled with technology in the modern age of web and the internet and things of that nature. And I think Rackspace for another reason in terms of the people. The culture at Rackspace was something that I've just been blessed by seeing that early in my career and seeing how at Rackspace that culture was just infectious, man. It was just something that I saw the CEO work 12 hours a day and he wasn't just in his office. He would be walking around talking to people. The culture was just the fanatical support. I was there when that was just being born. I thought that was just great. And going back to my Digex days, I remember driving past this really cool building. I was on my way to one of the jobs I had. And I saw these guys in khakis and they had cool badges and they were all going to this crazy building. And I was, man, I want to work there one day. And I just put that in my head. I want to work there one day. And I was blessed to have an opportunity to interview there. And it was the only interview that I ever knew that I failed.
0:07:33.1 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:07:33.5 Robert Green: It was Digex.
0:07:35.2 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:07:35.2 Robert Green: So every job I've ever interviewed, I've got the job. But that was the first one that I didn't get the job the first time around, second time around I did.
0:07:43.8 Everett Sands: Okay.
0:07:44.3 Robert Green: But it was really... It was a level up. I knew I had to go study. I knew I had to go become better. I think those are the two that...
0:07:52.5 Everett Sands: When you say fail, did you have to go apply for a different job? You had to go and be, hey, the interview didn't go quite well. You need to reinterview me. Just so I'm clear.
0:08:01.9 Robert Green: No, I bombed the interview. I bombed the interview. It was a technical interview. So my background is Unix and Linux. And the lady I worked with, her brother got me a job interview on the Windows side of things. I didn't know anything about Windows. I remember them asking me some crazy question about SCSI. I was, I don't know. I guessed. Bombed it.
0:08:26.9 Everett Sands: That's what I'm doing right now.
0:08:29.8 Robert Green: But I was resilient. I was like, you know what, I'm going to figure out a way to get a job here. And a job opening came up for Unix and I jumped in and got the job. But I took Night Shift. That was the only position that was open and I worked Night Shift for the first three years and loved it.
0:08:46.3 Everett Sands: That's interesting. Okay, so I heard a couple of different things there. I heard culture and I heard failure, but bouncing back. A couple of different leadership traits that I think are pretty interesting there. Dizzion, which you're at today. First, tell us a little about what it is. And then am I right in saying this is a back of the napkin concept. You created it literally on a napkin.
0:09:05.9 Robert Green: On a napkin. Yeah.
0:09:07.0 Everett Sands: All right, tell us what it is first.
0:09:08.4 Robert Green: In 2011, I came up with the idea of having virtual desktops in the cloud. And right back then, that was a new thing. No one had ever done that in that way. But basically what Dizzion does is put your PC in the cloud for regulated environments PCI, HIPAA, SOC so you don't have data leaving it on your laptops or desktops at the time. And putting all that stuff in a data center allows you to upgrade things very quickly, keep your workforce remote. And we just went through a pandemic where that was just very applicable. And I think the culture now is more remote. And that's where our technology enables is remote on PC without having your data outside of your control. Yeah, and it was the back of the napkin.
0:09:53.1 Everett Sands: Just so I'm clear, back in the day, people used to send us these software disks to update our computers. You're talking about replacing that.
0:10:01.5 Robert Green: Yeah.
0:10:02.2 Everett Sands: All right, all right. Just so I can connect the audience to...
0:10:05.3 Robert Green: PC is in the cloud. And you connect to it.
0:10:07.6 Everett Sands: Okay, so we don't have to have a bunch of disks coming to us this is the new version, new software version.
0:10:12.2 Robert Green: No more AOL disk everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.
0:10:13.2 Everett Sands: Yeah, yeah. I remember those. I remember those. Okay, okay. Back of the napkin that I would define as maybe the vision. Talk me through vision into implementation and operationalizing.
0:10:26.9 Robert Green: Yeah, so I've been a part of many different technology companies in the internet space. Digex, Rackspace. I went to a small company called VIA West, which was a colocation facility that we sold. And at the time, I met some really great people there. It was one of my first exits, had some money in my pocket. And it was, hey, I'm feeling good about myself. And then all of a sudden, my father passed away. And my dad, he and I were real close through my adult years. And he'd always tell me, you got to start a business. You got to start a business. You got to start a business. I'm, nah, I'm good. I make six figures. I live in a gated community. Dad, I'm good, right? And honestly, when he died, I just was, hey, I had this idea that I'd been working with and working with him, and I'm just going to call some people up and see if they want to be a part of it. I called my two cofounders, and six months later, we had a company.
0:11:30.5 Robert Green: And starting that business, again, you write the idea down on a napkin, and at the time, I was a very technical CTO kind of person. I didn't know how to raise money. I didn't know how to sell. I didn't know any of those things. And really, what the idea was, when you start a business, many people say, I can do something on my own. I got this. And I tried that. And I tried it. But you can't do it on your own, right? You got to find complementary people that can come alongside you with the same vision and the same outcome, but different roles. So Steve, who served as a CEO for many years, I called him up and said, hey, I don't know what you're going to do here, but I need you here because I can't do this part. And he was, I got it. I'll take over the CEO role. And Manny, who's one of the best salespeople I've ever met, he came in and did sales. The three of us together kind of combined, if you will, and we were able to launch a company leveraging our core strengths.
0:12:29.5 Everett Sands: Now, what do you know about science and about tech guys? Would you say if you were talking to the audience who's full of tech users and people who could develop amazing products and back it up, would you tell them, hey, you need somebody to lead the organization and a sales guy? Is that common in tech land that you need this help? Or is that something that you felt was kind of isolated to you?
0:12:52.7 Robert Green: I guess a lot of engineers think they can do everything because they're really smart people. Right. And I think being self-aware and understanding that you have limits to your knowledge... For example, one of the things that used to frustrate me a lot was people would say, hey, sales is half art and half science. I'm, come on now. It ain't that hard. I got a great product. And many technical people think if I got a great product, they will come. That is incorrect. I've seen many products who are just amazing products die on the shelf because you don't have any marketing, you don't have any messaging, you don't have any value around it. I think it's really good to just take a step back, understand what's your core strengths and understand that there's a different side of the story that everybody has that you don't necessarily know.
0:13:39.8 Everett Sands: Yeah. You got your vision. You got the idea for the company. You need to raise capital. Now, I'm sure that was super easy for you. Go ahead and tell the audience how easy it was to raise that capital.
0:13:50.9 Robert Green: I love raising capital. That's my favorite thing to do. Not... Probably the hardest thing we've ever done is raise capital. I've had to do it quite a few times throughout the lifespan of Dizzion, and it was very difficult. At first, I'm glad that I brought Steve on and Manny on, and we came together and got behind this idea because they had friends. Raising capital comes down to relationships. Who you work with in the past. A lot of our first investors were friends and family. Steve, his parents, Manny, his parents, they put money in, my parents put money into the business. That's how we started, was friends and family. It's nothing taking money from your dad or your mom or people who you were really close to because that's real money. You don't want to lose that.
0:14:43.4 Everett Sands: That's right.
0:14:44.5 Robert Green: That was very difficult going through that. And then you're always managing that war from falling in the moment when you're about to lose money. You're about to run out of money. And that probably happened 10, 15 times. After the fifth time, you're, yeah, we'll figure it out. But I think going out and doing roadshows and taking to the next level, we raised VC capital in 2015. We've met with a lot of companies. It's over and over and over again, we got really good at the script, we got really good at honing in on our message and what we were trying to build. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy having to go through that over and over and over again.
0:15:29.6 Everett Sands: It's always amazing to me is the people who are, I met with 213 companies or investors before I got my first one. It's amazing that you could even count that because after, I don't know, first hundred, I just couldn't remember anymore. It didn't seem a good idea to count and the depression starts to sink in just a little bit if you keep counting, right?
0:15:51.6 Robert Green: And keep hearing people say no. God, not another no.
0:15:53.1 Everett Sands: Yeah, exactly.
0:15:54.1 Robert Green: It's very depressing.
0:15:56.6 Everett Sands: Yeah, no, I'm totally with you. Let's stay on that track, not necessarily trying to depress you, but let's think about setbacks. Maybe give us one or two that you can kind of recollect on and then, I don't know, what would you tell the entrepreneurs that are listening as they go through their setback?
0:16:14.7 Robert Green: I think one of the biggest setbacks was... You go out and you get that first customer. I'll never forget our first customer that we brought on. I lost their data. And when you got two customers and you lose one of the customers' data, that's a problem. And it was a really tough one. It was an ego check for me because I've never been in a situation... I've been in very highstress situations with big JPMorgan Chase environments and Nike.com and all those things. And if I hit the button, I lost their data. And it was gone, gone.
0:16:55.6 Everett Sands: That makes me scared. I got chills just thinking about it.
0:16:57.4 Robert Green: Yeah. I almost got a little tick there. But that was very hard. I had to go to the customer and tell them I lost their data. It ain't coming back. It's gone, gone. That was really difficult. But that happened really early in the company's history. I kind of shook it off and never made that mistake again to this day. Now go away. That was one of the big setbacks. And I think fast forward, we had some board members who we didn't see eye to eye. And it really hurt the company in terms of who you bring into your board is very, very special. And you're not going to always see eye to eye. But you got to understand there's the executive team who leads the business day to day. And there's a board team who advises those people, not the other way around.
0:17:44.0 Everett Sands: Yeah, I gotcha.
0:17:44.8 Robert Green: So it's very important.
0:17:46.8 Everett Sands: So you called that customer. What did the customer exactly say to you? If you can say it.
0:17:51.0 Robert Green: I can't say it. It was very...
0:17:53.5 Everett Sands: You can say is explicative.
0:17:54.4 Robert Green: Explicative, that's right. But there was threats of lawsuits and all kinds of different things. But kind of fast forward, the resiliency that we held through that, one of their employees actually came and worked for us. You build relationships through tough times. And one of the things that she said that stood out was the fact that we didn't run away. And we built relationships. And I helped. I jumped in there and I didn't leave. Sometimes you can be, hey, lost your data, bye. And we didn't do that as a company. And that built our culture of not running away.
0:18:31.0 Everett Sands: What other things would you say that customers have taught you on your journey?
0:18:35.3 Robert Green: Oh, be honest. Be honest. I think be honest and be a partner. Sometimes it's not always going to go well, right? And you've got to own up to those things, be accountable, and tell the truth. I call having a high say-do ratio. When you have a high say-do ratio, it really comes down to you do what you say nine times out of 10. And that one time you can't do it, you explain why. And I think that's one of the biggest lessons I've learned throughout my career is dealing with customers, have a high say-do ratio, and have accountability when you can't get that one over the finish line.
0:19:14.9 Everett Sands: Now a quick word from our sponsor, Lendistry's customer. We'll be right back.
0:19:23.6 Neil Kumar: My name is Neil Kumar. The company's name is Summit Juice Co. I'm originally from the UK, and I'm Los Angeles based. Problems I was experiencing when finding the business was I envisioned a few ideas, and I couldn't put them into practice because I didn't have the funds. What was my result working with Lendistry was it was just such a great experience. I mean, having a partner that brings us in on events, lets us have more access to capital, and lets us grow as a business, and lets us put our dreams into reality. We brought more team members on board. We were able to invest in a van. We were able to go to more locations and invest in better equipment and materials. I always work with Lendistry, and if there's anyone asking for capital or ideas or advice, I always send them Lendistry's way.
0:20:09.4 Everett Sands: We're talking to Robert Greene, CEO and President of Dizzion, I think that's exact. We just started talking about customers, continuing down your leadership journey. What do you think is a myth that you heard as either you started a business or you've gone down the journey...? Because we hear from some businesses, and when they're talking to... Or small business owners, when they're talking about innovation, there's some things that honestly I'm just not sure where they got it from or who they heard it from, but clearly it's discouraging for them. I'm interested in some of the things you heard and maybe even overcome.
0:20:45.8 Robert Green: One of the biggest myths I think that are out there is that your product will sell itself. That is not true. It won't sell itself. Products don't sell themselves. I think the other myth, it's you work hard, you work hard, you work hard, you have an outcome, right? That doesn't happen. I remember talking to one of the founders, good company, a friend of ours, and they said, look, you can have all the planning you want, but it's about luck a lot of the times, right? And what is luck? When preparation meets opportunity, right? When you think about luck, right, no one can build this plan on luck. But I'm here 13, 14 years after starting the company and saying, yeah, it's luck. You could never have told me that there's going to be a global pandemic that will require everyone to use my product. No, right? Those things, that's timing and that's luck because we built a platform that was there for that specific use case and the world needed it. We were there to answer that call.
0:21:57.9 Everett Sands: So you had some times where investors didn't invest. Anybody that's been on a 13 or 14 year journey has some tried and true moments. Just what gets you through? Man of faith, family, just help me understand some of those things.
0:22:13.5 Robert Green: Faith. I mean, I'll just tell you right now, there's a saying my wife would always say, when worship's high, worry's low. And that's one of the things that really gets you through is having that vision and understanding God brought you this far, he'll take you to the next level. And having that faith in your people as well. And knowing that if you do right by them, they'll do right by you. There have been many times where I didn't take a paycheck to pay my people. And that's true for myself and my cofounders. And you put that much into what you do every day, you have to have faith in your people will actually show up and show out and do a great job. And that's one of the things that I have faith in my people. And they've done a tremendous job through the good times and the bad times.
0:23:02.2 Everett Sands: Now, look, I totally get that. So technology is constantly evolving. I would love to pretend that I could stay on top of it. But how do you stay on top of it? I mean, as a tech guy and a tech kind of aficionado, I mean, you've spoken at a bunch of conferences. I mean, I can name them all. But I just remember hearing you, seeing you on stage in San Francisco one time. And you just, you command the stage, you know what you're talking about. Very, very clear. But how do you stay on top of tech trends or just the industry in general?
0:23:33.9 Robert Green: I read. I read a lot. Even more now as a CEO, I read different books than when I was a CTO. But you constantly read. You constantly stay curious. I think that's the one thing about staying, especially in technology, you always got to stay curious. I have an innate curiosity. I want to know how things work. If you go back to when I was a kid, my grandfather would say, I would take stuff apart that shouldn't be taken apart. Just curious. Just having that natural curiosity. I think that's how you stay abreast of things. You read and you're curious and you let that curiosity drive your want to go and learn the next new thing. That's one of the reasons why I chose technology versus staying in science. It was I know because it changes constantly. I thrive off that change. It feeds that curiosity.
0:24:25.3 Everett Sands: I got it. There's good habits and bad habits. Reading is a good habit. I think most people say I can't not say because I have children and it could go the wrong way on me if I'd say anything. I mean, a lot of CEOs have the bad habit of shiny objects too. How do you read something and just sit and say yes, no for moving the company forward?
0:24:47.0 Robert Green: I've seen many CEOs read a book and try to implement the book. I think you got to synthesize things. I think that's where the science comes back in. You could read a thousand research papers and you're, oh, I got an idea from here and I got an idea from here. Let's put them together. And that's where one plus one equals three. It's when you start to synthesize these things together. Reading is fundamental, as they say, but you can't just copy the book. You actually have to synthesize that for your organization, for your time, for all the variables that are applicable to you, and then pull together something unique.
0:25:19.4 Everett Sands: Got it. All right. You're talking to younger Robert, younger Rob right now, and this could be high school Rob. This could be NASA Rob. This could be Digex Rob. What's some of the advice or what's some pieces of advice you give to him?
0:25:34.4 Robert Green: Oh, wow. That's a tough one. One of the reasons why I say it's tough is because you're defined by those critical moments. I would never want to stop those critical moments from happening because they define you.
0:25:46.1 Everett Sands: That's right. It's the journey.
0:25:48.0 Robert Green: The journey that makes you more resilient. When you ask God for patience or he gives you trying time. The piece of advice I probably will give is just be tenacious. Right. And be more of encouragement. The work that you're putting in right now is going to matter in 10, 15 years. Continue to put the work in.
0:26:10.2 Everett Sands: I think what's been interesting for me is you don't realize that that moment in the journey is important two, three, five years down the road. And you're, why am I going through this right now? And then you're down the road again. You're, ah, that's why. Exactly. That's great. That's great. Well, look, man, it's been great talking to you. This has been a great conversation. Hopefully our listeners will hear this. They'll follow you. Where do you want them to follow you? I'm assuming LinkedIn, but...
0:26:39.8 Robert Green: LinkedIn, follow Dizzion. D-I-Z-Z-I-O-N. It's a funny name. But yeah, Dizzion.com is where to find us.
0:26:49.0 Everett Sands: That's awesome. Awesome. Thanks, Rob. Appreciate having you today.
0:26:51.5 Robert Green: Thank you for having me.
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0:26:52.7 Everett Sands: Thanks for hanging out with us on Small Business Unscripted. Want more? Head to smallbusinessunscripted.com for episodes, helpful resources, and to keep the conversation going. Follow Lendistry at Lendistry, that's L-E-N-D-I-S-T-R-Y, on all the major platforms. See you next time.